Лингвофорум

Первый глиф - Орхон, второй - Енисей
𐰄 𐰃  —  ı, i  /ɯ/, /i/
𐰶 𐰷 — ıq, qı, q  /ɯq/, /qɯ/, /q/
𐰴 ‎𐰵‎ —- q/k¹  /q/
𐰚 ‎𐰛‎ — k²  /k/
𐰸‎ 𐰹‎ — oq  /oq/
𐰜‎ 𐰝‎ — ök  /øk/, /yk/, /kø/, /ky/, /k/; (ö /ø/ - как в нем. "шён")
𐰽 — S¹    /s/
𐰾 — S²  /sʲ/
𐰕 𐰔 — z  /z/

𐰄 𐰃  — после
твердых —  ï/ı,  /ɯ/
мягких — i,  /i/

В различных транскрипциях
(ı,  /ɯ/) VS (i,  /i/)
(ï,  /ɯ/) VS (i,  /i/)
Qız/qïz  VS  Kisi

В каз. кириллице
ы  VS  і

𐰸 — ok — стрела
𐰚𐰚𐰝 — [käkük] — вид сокола или хищной птицы
𐰚𐰚𐰜 — [käkük] — в орхонской графике
(ä - как в англ man; ü - нем. blüme)
𐰸𐰸 — [quq] — последний слог в имени Tonyuquq
𐰹𐰹 — енисейск.
-𐰾𐰃𐰔 (-siz)  —  отсутствие,  суффикс лишения
-𐰴𐰔 (-kaz)  —  копать, рыть; выискивать

𐰚𐰃𐰾𐰃    𐰶𐰃𐰔  𐰾𐰛𐰃𐰕
S²K²iZ  QyZ  K²iS²i 
sekiz qïz kisi
sekiz qız kisi
восемь девушка человек

Цитата: mnashe от сентября  7, 2022, 12:45Некоторые правила у этого нового шва, конечно, есть, хоть и довольно нерегулярные, но из масоретского иврита в них нет почти ничего.

Может, это сандхи и было в эпоху масоретов, просто мы об этом можем и не знать...

Цитата: DarkMax2 от августа 14, 2026, 11:07в казахской орфографии И и У обозначают комбинацию звуков: йи/ий, ву/ув/в (имею в виду wu/uw/w).

Это в қыз и в кісі?

KZ:   
қыз – девушка, дочь; кісі – человек

ДТ: QyZ, K'iS'i
/qɯz/ , /kisi/

Цитата: Easyskanker от декабря  5, 2025, 17:56https://newkazaklatyn.netlify.app/ транслитератор

...
Kk - Ққ
...
Yy - Ыы
Zz - Зз

10)  И и
В твёрдых словах читается твёрдо [ый], в мягких – мягко [ій]

Прослушать  жиналыс [жыйналыс] – собрание
Прослушать  жидек [жійдек] – ягода
В односложных словах «и», в основном, мягкая.

Прослушать  би [бій] – танец
Прослушать  ит [ійт] – собака
(Но в слове 'ми (мозг)' – твёрдая)

https://kaz-tili.kz/su_fonetika.htm

Цитата: DarkMax2 от августа 14, 2026, 11:07Угу, в казахской орфографии И и У обозначают комбинацию звуков: йи/ий, ву/ув/в (имею в виду wu/uw/w).

Спасибо!

С гласными, кажется, вообще как с известной буквой "Ять",
которую ученые на слух не различали, правописание заучивали.

В казахском же среди 15-ти (!) его гласных таких "ятей" многовато будет, да...

Несколько систем транскрипции, причем бывают расхождения (а была ли в ДТ ä?).
Да и сами гласные (как в том же казахском) в разных позициях зачастую звучат по-разному...

Интересно как Kesantielu Dasefern на
http://eski-turk.blogspot.com/2013/11/blog-post_16.html
представил рунический казахский алфавит
из 29-ти букв.

Гласных, как оказывается, хватает и 11-ти.

Цитата: Karakurt от августа 14, 2026, 09:33

Цитата: Alexander_S от августа  4, 2026, 01:34в русском мы можем писать как "ки", так и "кы".
В казахском так нельзя?
 
кісі – человек;  қыз – девушка

есть ки. но это грубо говоря кий, точно так же қи это қый

В кириллице миссия смягчения согласной возложена на гласную.

Казахская же официальная кириллица стремилась задействовать и древнетюркскую тактику,
в которой функция смягчения/отвердения гласной регулируется согласной.
https://kaz-tili.kz/su_fonetika.htm

KZ:   
қыз – девушка, дочь; кісі – человек

ДТ: QyZ, K'iS'i
/qɯz/ , /kisi/
Транскрипция показывает различие гласных,
но "рунами" пишется один и тот же глиф.
Звучит он по-разному (тверже/мягче).

February 7, 1855. — The Treaty of Shimoda is signed between the Russian Empire and Japan, establishing "perpetual peace and sincere friendship." Under this bilateral convention, Russian and Japanese subjects are granted mutual state protection regarding personal safety and the inviolability of their property. The Japanese government opens the ports of Shimoda, Hakodate, and Nagasaki to Russian vessels, permitting mutual trade and the future establishment of a Russian consulate. As a tactical diplomatic concession, Russia relinquishes its patronage over the Ainu populations of Hokkaido and its adjacent islets, many of whom had already been converted to Orthodoxy by Russian missionaries. Distracted by the ongoing Crimean War, Russia is unable to utilize the newly opened harbors. Soon after, Britain and France secure identical treaties, actively utilizing Japanese ports as strategic staging grounds for their naval incursions against the Russian Pacific coast.

November 14, 1855 – In response to the forced opening of Japan by the Atlantic powers, the Komisa (government) of Balnivia voluntarily opened all its major ports, in addition to the southern port of Maldonado/Maldo. International merchant ships now had access to the following harbors: Laputa on the island of the same name, Lindalino/Linda in the southwest, Tirama in the north, Kamira in the east, and the capital of Lagado in the southeast. While incoming books and newspapers would remain under strict censorship by the bishopric, foreign merchants would be granted free access to warehouses managed by the Komisiberu (Ministry of Supply), on the condition that all transactions were strictly converted into "foreign vouchers."

November 25, 1855. — The Komisa (government) of Balniwia officially legalizes its "foreign checks" into a codified national currency named monsu to finance massive, upfront wholesale sugar contracts in Hawaii. Prompted by the soaring demands of the California Gold Rush and the newly opened land markets of the Great Māhele, the American planters in Honolulu are desperate for capital as Washington stalls on a duty-free reciprocity treaty. Seizing the moment, Balniwia introduces the monsu as a hard, guaranteed medium of exchange backed by its state metal treasury, allowing cooperative procurement agents from Maldonado to outbid American merchants and secure the first "advanced funding loops" over Hawaii's booming sugarcane and coffee plantations.

March 18, 1856 – The Treaty of Paris was signed, ending the Crimean War. Article XI was of fundamental importance to Russia, stipulating the complete neutralization of the Black Sea, prohibiting all regional powers from maintaining naval fleets, while Article XIII prohibited the establishment of naval arsenals and fortresses on its coast. Left without a Black Sea Fleet, the Russian crown transferred thousands of highly qualified naval officers, navigators, and shipwrights to other maritime frontiers, primarily to the Pacific Ocean and to the Volunteer Merchant Fleet vessels plying between the Black Sea and Baltic ports and the Far East.

April 21, 1856. — Bricklayers and builders in Melbourne, Australia, stage a massive protest march, resulting in the first industry-wide eight-hour workday outside of Balniwia, without wage reduction. The success of the Melbourne builders sparked similar demands by workers across Australia and New Zealand.

October 31, 1856. — Emperor Alexander II signs an Imperial Ukase (decree) declaring the harbor of Ayan a duty-free port (porto-franco) and restructuring the administration of the Pacific frontiers. Under this decree, the Far Eastern possessions are strictly bifurcated along the meridian 169°30' W. All islands, territories, and strategic marine rookeries lying to the west of this line—including the Pribilof Islands, St. Lawrence Island —are entirely removed from the monopoly of the Russian-American Company and placed under the newly established Ayan Military Governorship, led by Actual State Councilor Yuliy Ivanovich Stubendorf. The new maritime province encompasses the entire ice-free open Pacific coastline from the border of China up to Chukotka, establishing its land border along the oceanic watershed under the strategic command of Irkutsk. The decree, published in the Irkutsk Provincial Gazette, sparks an immediate commercial boom, while Icarian scholars in Kamiris, fluent in Russian, translate it into the Balniu basu (Balnibarbian language) for swift transmission via optical telegraph to the Select Council on Lagado.

November 14, 1856 – The city of Nikolaevsk is founded on the site of the Nikolaev outpost at the mouth of the Amur River, in neighboring China, weakened by the Opium Wars. The bulk of the newly formed city's population consists of starving, impoverished refugees from devastated settlements along the Russian Pacific coast, evacuated before and after the merciless attacks of Anglo-French warships. Neutral Balniwia sends the refugees a huge shipment of humanitarian aid, laden with high-calorie rations, warm clothing, construction tools, nails, staples, and window glass.

July 14, 1857 – The Balnivian government authorizes the founding of Sandu (two sands), the first Balnivian commune established outside the country's original territories, on an atoll with two sandy islands. Discovered decades earlier by fishermen from the mouth of the Tair River due to their geographic proximity, these two islands, with their highest point 13 meters above sea level, were originally a naval base for the KomisiUl (Ministry of War). Today, the atoll's population has achieved economic self-sufficiency through seafood and guano harvesting, and serving as a staging post en route to the fertile Hawaiian chain.

May 14, 1858. — The Yakutsk-Ayan Railway Joint-Stock Company is officially established, following a bilateral charter registered by the Russian Ministry of Finance and the komisiBeru (Commercial Commissariat) of Balniwia. The dynamic enterprise is split asunder as a 50/50 joint venture between a syndicate of Siberian merchant tycoons, led by the prominent Irkutsk gold magnate Mikhail Alexandrovich Sibiryakov, and a coalition of three Balnibarbi industrial communes: Haliu (steel), Eleitro (electric) and talaWelu (canvas). The shares are strictly backed by barter commodities: the Icarian communes provide high-grade chrome-vanadium rails, steam-powered excavators, and standardized canvas workwear, while the Siberian merchants supply premium timber for ties, structural stone, and mass provisions of grain and meat for the mobilization of the Labor Armies.

On June 12, 1858, just a few weeks after the signing of the Treaty of Aigun and before the final demarcation of the border, the 13th Siberian Line Battalion marched through the entire Amur region, newly annexed to Russia, and crossed to the right bank of the Amur, that is, into the territory of Primorye, which was to be jointly administered by Russia and China. Under the command of Captain Yakov Dyachenko, this military unit established an important strategic foothold at the confluence of the Amur and Ussuri rivers – the settlement of Khabarovka.

September 14, 1859. — The komisiBeru of Balniwia secures its first "advanced funding loops" in Melanesia (New Hebrides and the Solomon Islands) to counter the rise of British and Australian Blackbirding raids. As Australian slave-traders begin devastating the islands to kidnap native labor for Queensland plantations, the local chieftains seek protection. Seizing the opportunity, Balniwia provides upfront wholesale contracts paid in monsu credits, backed by the implicit threat of its new vanadium-steel naval corvettes. In exchange, the Melanesian leaders grant Balniwia a total monopoly over the region's expanding harvests of copra and wild caoutchouc, establishing the initial economic anchor for what will later become the overseas province of New Icaria.

October 24–25, 1860 – Following the Second Opium War, the Treaties of Peking were signed, radically altering the geopolitical landscape of East Asia and the Pacific. Under these treaties, the weakened Qing Empire paid a massive indemnity, opened Tianjin to foreign trade, and authorized the use of Chinese labor as virtual slave labor in British and French colonies. While Great Britain acquired the southern part of the Kowloon Peninsula, Russia received the Ussuri region (Primorye). The latter, however, did not formally belong to China, being the hereditary property of the ruling Manchu dynasty, which had exclusive rights to dispose of it at its own discretion and had strictly limited Chinese settlement in the area for the previous two centuries.

April 12, 1861 - The "Liberation Manifesto" in Russia triggers a massive wave of peasant migration to the Far East.

October 24, 1861. — The Commune of Eleitro successfully completed the first underwater telegraph cable between the mainland of Balnivia and the island of Laputa. This technological breakthrough was achieved using domestic reserves of high-quality gutta-percha, extracted from vast plantations of Eucommia ulmoides (gutta-percha tree), intensively cultivated by armies of labor since 1855.

December 18, 1861 – The Japanese shogun's warship Kanrin Maru arrives in the Ogasawara (Bonin) Islands to reassert its sovereignty. However, it encounters a situation of complete economic dependence on the komisiBeru: Balniwia owns all the subtropical plantations, and the products of the marine industry have been purchased for several years in advance. Japanese authorities were forced to end direct annexation and begin a protracted territorial dispute, with diplomatic and economic pressure exerted between Edo and Lagado.

December 20, 1862. — Construction of the Ayan-Yakutsk Railway was completed ahead of schedule, despite work being carried out in two eight-hour shifts in the summer and one eight-hour shift in the winter. The town of Nizhny Bestyakh was founded at the terminus on the right bank of the Lena River, boasting an extensive network of covered warehouses, docks, and slipways for storing cargo during the ice melt. The railway opened the route for the export of hundreds of thousands of tons of cargo, spurring the development of the Lena basin.

Simultaneously, the joint-stock company announced the transfer of all construction workers and equipment across the frozen river to the upper reaches of the Lena, from where construction of railways to the Angara and from Lake Baikal to the Argun, a tributary of the Amur, was to begin.

September 24, 1863 – France consolidates its control over New Caledonia, turning the island into a penal colony. In response, komisiUl of Balniwia orders its gunboats to establish permanent naval patrols around the Solomon Islands and to convert its trading posts into militarized outposts.

August 20, 1864 – King Kamehameha V of Hawaii signs a secret trade agreement with Balniwia, seeking to curb the aggressive economic dominance of American sugarcane planters. After promulgating a new, restrictive royal constitution, the Hawaiian Crown grants KomisiBer exclusive long-term options to purchase the islands' booming sugar and coffee crops, guaranteed by advance loans from the monsu. This "advanced financing chain" allows the Hawaiian monarchy to bypass New York banks, effectively transferring the island's key agricultural assets to the indirect ownership of Balniwia and fueling bitter long-term geopolitical tensions between Washington and Lagado.

On September 28, 1864 — A mass meeting of 2,000 workers from Great Britain, France, and a few representatives from other countries took place at St. Martin's Hall in London. George Odger, secretary of the London Trades Union Council, read out the "Address of English Workers to Their French Brothers." His statement that "the eight-hour day is the immediate goal of the labor movement, already achieved on the shores of the Pacific in Australia, New Zealand, and Balniwia" elicited cries of delight and disbelief in the hall, especially the mention of the last of these countries. The meeting unanimously resolved to found an international workers' organization with a central committee in London.

September 14, 1865 – The Yakut-Ayan Railway Joint-Stock Company completed construction of the strategic line between Ust-Kut and Bratsk-Ostrog. Construction crews, working eight-hour shifts, crossed a 250-kilometer watershed, connecting the vast Yenisei and Lena river systems for the first time. This railway enabled the uninterrupted delivery of raw materials from the Siberian hinterland to the free port of Ayan for the Balnivian economy. The reverse flow of steam engines and machinery sparked a massive economic boom in Irkutsk.

Угу, в казахской орфографии И и У обозначают комбинацию звуков: йи/ий, ву/ув/в (имею в виду wu/uw/w).

Цитата: Alexander_S от августа  4, 2026, 01:34в русском мы можем писать как "ки", так и "кы".
В казахском так нельзя?
 
кісі – человек;  қыз – девушка

есть ки. но это грубо говоря кий, точно так же қи это қый

EYEWITNESS NOTES:
Commentary by retired Captain 2nd Rank of the Naval Artillery Corps P. A. Pereleshin.
"Library for Reading," Volume CXXXIV, No. 10, October 1855.

October 14th. — The editors of "Library for Reading" magazine asked me to evaluate four eyewitness accounts concerning our Fatherland's eastern neighbor—the commune of Balnibarbi-Icaria.

I took on this assignment, or rather, dared to judge the veracity of these accounts, due to my long-standing connection, through my past service, with this strange land. Like the author of the first account, I was involved with the International Commission on Marine Fisheries in Northern Waters. However, Konstantin Maksimovich Borzenko is a diplomat with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, while I was in military service with the Admiralty.

Like all four authors of these notes, I became quite close with the Balnibarbian Brothers. Like Alexander Ivanovich Levitov, I visited our neighbors as a guest. The difference was that the esteemed professor studied economics, while I was interested in artillery and its manufacture on the island.

And I did indeed meet many invited European experts there, such as Messrs. Henrik van de Berg and Per Georg Scheutz. And with the help of such experts and their own engineers, the Communards' industry is indeed already catching up with the most developed countries in Europe, and their rails, artillery pieces, armor, and tools made of chrome-vanadium steel have already outpaced European progress.

As a result of this experience, I found all four notes remarkably truthful and vivid descriptions. For my part, I'll stand up for the Balnibarbian aborigines, whom I admire, even now they're considered either sullen fanatics or victims of heartless coercion into identical poverty.

Despite these depressing characteristics, the Balnibarbians, at least, do not wage merciless wars among themselves or against their neighbors, do not sell human beings like cattle, and do not exhaust their workers with long hours and miserable wages. Therefore, let us look at their historically established customs and mores, if not with outright approval, then at least with kindly indulgence. They are living people, and like us, they strive for goodness and happiness.

And here I must emphasize that we, the loyal subjects of our God-protected Autocrat, must abandon our disdain for the 'naive, evangelical communism' of these bearded men—who resemble us so much—and adopt the Balnibarbians' method of evenly developing the outskirts. I am, of course, speaking of our own Pacific frontier, directly opposite their islands.

Along its entire length of five thousand miles*, there are currently only three operational ports: Ayan, Unalaska, and Novoarkhangelsk.
*) From the Amur Estuary, running along the non-mountainous tundra to Chukotka and encompassing all of Russian America. The first of these ports remains completely undeveloped and unequipped, while the other two are situated on remote islands and mostly serve the needs of foreign traders, with little benefit to the surrounding mainland.

It is of vital importance for us to grant our Far Eastern volosts the same economic independence as the Balnibarbian communes. First and foremost, we must grant the local merchants of the Ayan port the right to duty-free trade, and, most importantly, begin laying a railway from Yakutsk to the ocean without sparing any gold. The useful example of these eastern islanders should be appreciated all the more in the present hour of terrible trials, when the treacherous Anglo-French assault on our Pacific borders has recalled all regular forces to the main coast, leaving the fate of these waters to depend solely on the vigilance of private individuals and the friendly-neutral Icarians of Russia, for which they deserve our sincere respect