Произношение t как [ч] в английском

[iopq]

word то произносится [wɝd]!

[regn]

Да, только в конце нет эризованного гласного! Мне трудны кластеры типа "эризованный + неносовой флэп + эризованный"

[Loafer]

Так, мужчины! Спасибо за советы и мнения! Я даже переделал "программу" с учётом "укорачивания гласных" и оглущения /d/ во флэп. Ок, ввиду флэп с тильдой для /nt/ ситуаций. Мне так, действительно, кажется логичней теперь (Я всех в семье задолбал своими бормотаниями!)

Ситкомы я и разбираю. Просто тупо перевожу и комментирую почему затянул "бааааай" и т.д. Только у меня всеприемлимой общей модели с интонацией на получается.

А вот, теперь, такой ворос: Все знают Snowwhite? Dopey, Sleepy, Sneezy, Grumpy and so on and on? Может кто-нибудь привести пример ситуаций, когда можно говорить "Stop naming dwarfs." вне контекста мультика?

[iopq]

Dopey, Sleepy, Sneezy, Grumpy

Stop naming dwarfs, we get what you're saying

[Loafer]

Действительно. Спасибо! Представляешь, iopq, я ни разу не смотрел этот мультик. Многие языковые обороты основываются на каких-то банальных фактоидах, которые мы иногда просто тупо, как попки, повторяем, не задумываясь над их истинным смыслом.

Вот ещё пример - застрял на значении слова "отнюдь"... по-русски. Мне кажется, я его использую лишь в шаблоне "Отнюдь нет!", что (вроде бы) значит "Вовсе нет! Как раз по-другому." Но я не уверен...

Кто-нибудь тут знает, что за зверь этот "отнюдь" на самом деле?

[regn]

- А разве правда, что .... ?
- Отнюдь! (т.е. "конечно, неправда!")

[Loafer]

Ну вот, уже и в родной шпрахе учиться надо.   Спасибо!

Т.е. как я понял, это значит "Совсем наоборот!"

[regn]

отнюдь -- no way! not at all! by no means!

[Vertaler]

ОТНЮ'ДЬ, нареч. (книжн.). Нисколько, совсем, вовсе, никоим образом (перед отрицанием). Я отнюдь не отказываюсь. Он отнюдь не такого мнения. Отнюдь не всегда.

В детстве я ничего странного в этих выражениях не видел. А сейчас, почитав высказывания людей, слышавших «отнюдь» очевидно только как самостоятельное слово (что должно быть жутким просторечием, — эстеты предлагают поюзать «вовсе!» как категоричный ответ и сравнить реакцию), стал сомневаться. 

[Loafer]

Да начинаешь задумываться - только больше путаешься. Но, впрочем, у меня нет вот такого природного дара анализа слов.

Народ! Я вот решил коммерциализироваться - перейти от корпоративных тенингов на массового полльзователя с "Упрощённой Американской фонологией для Русскоговорящих." Кризиз отбил всех Johnson&Jonson и прочих. Хочу после Нового Года выбросить курс на Amazon и прореламировать. Вот попробовал себя в роли "Лектор" в YouTube Commercial:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfBNeni-nL0

Совсем неубедительно получилось?

Мой девиз в этом деле: "20% навыков решают 80% проблем". Эдакий "фолькс-курсе", для русских технорей. Что думаете?

[regn]

Man... I can hear your accent in certain words, but you pronounce so many things in just a perfect way! Good job!

So, are you writing a book or just making this online tutorial?

[Loafer]

"I can hear your accent in certain words, but you pronounce so many things in just a perfect way!"

You know, from my experience it takes about 3-6 months to lose accents (not completely, though.) As I said (and you guys agreed) that intonation comes pretty fast. And it's really difficult to speak non-native English when you have lived in Russia for 5+ years and spoken with virtually nobody in English, and you think in Russian all day long. Sometimes I have to mentally translate from Russian into English. It shows, I guess.

I'm proud I had to delete just six fillers (like "huh") from my 7 minutes' recording. I already now how they look in sound charts without actually zooming in.

But the purpose of the project I am working on, again, is NOT accent elimination per se. Some noticeable reduction is supposed to be just a by-product. Some very educated and smart Russian guys are having problems with the basics. And it slows them down socially and professionally quite a bit.

Originally I targeted 5-days corporate oral English communications trainings. Now, given that f-g crisis, I have NO corporate clients. So, I'm putting that "businessman" hat on me, trying to come up with some sort of mass product for "individuals".

It looks like PowerPoint presentaion with macros (programmable logic, but not in the demo, though) + thousands of audio files with my "lecturing", samples of different americans speaking, and animated graphics. I have some video files, too. Yet the latter take too much space and I won't be able to download to people's PCs. alas, I've got to reduce their number. I left just five minutes NBC's "Teachers" episode. But that's for INTONATION. And intonation is difficult to explain in lectures - too fee general rules.

I plan to sell to individuals for 4,000 rbls. I don't expect to make any serious money on it (10-30 sales per month.) But maybe people will like my methodology, and it will be easier to sell expensive corporate trainings when economy picks up again.

I've been working very hard on these materials over the last 8 months. Writing books sucks. Besides, I'm not a linguist -- have to reinvent the wheel all the time. Yet I think I can substantially speed up things for those people who are serious about studying English. Importantly, the course is in Russian.


And - yes - thank you very very much for your and iopq's input and help. Most Russians are self-conscious jerks with inferiority complex. It was difficult to find people who speak both English and Russian well, and are willing to discuss things and help me a bit, at an applied level, you know?

[Loafer]

Also, do you think the presentation would benefit if I rerecorded certain patches? Like those words I mispronounce? What are the most obvious turn-offs? In that video I wanted to sound like a lecturer. At least, as I fancy an American lecturer.

Are the Russian language videos ok? Will they help sell? I could change or modify them, you know. My leitmotif is supposed to be like this: "I'm one of you. I'm just like you. I know how to get you going. You won't be perfect, but better. From there on the sky is the limit. If you are only willing." Somethin like that.

What do you think?

[regn]

Basically, your pronunciation is very good. I loved it. The only thing I noticed is that you sometimes shorten vowels in words where they should be long. Also, the quality changes significantly. Here's two examples I heard a few times in the recording:

English [`eŋlɪʃ] with an initial [e] instead of [ i]
feedback [f ɪdbæk] instead of [f i:dbæk] (in some other words the same showed)

Otherwise, your rhotic vowels are very good. I'm even jealous a bit 'cause there are words that are difficult for me and are very easy for you

[iopq]

А я слышу акцент очень четко. Но все таки моя мама, проживши в Штатах девять лет вам позавидует. Может быть я тоже запишу себя, а вы мне скажите как я говорю

[regn]

Давайте! Я тоже так сделаю! У меня есть видео на юТубе, но я на тот момент в США всего 3 недели и говорю со  Swedish accent, потому что пару лет назад немного переувлекся шведским

У Loafer'а интересно: у него некоторые слова просто идеально звучат, а некоторые явно с акцентом. Причем я давал носителю даже вчера случать для интереса. Он то же самое сказал

[Loafer]

you go ahead and do it, guys.  A piece of advice, though:

Don't waste bits and bytes on VIDEO with your "talking head" in it. It takes too much space and adds little value. Just put some JPEG with your face in it or somethin. Better go for higher SOUND quality (bit-rate, for once.)

iopq, what did strike you as the most noticeable accent deviations?

Again, do you think it's appealing to potential clients?

[regn]

if the person's ears aren't trained well, I guess they won't notice it... especially if their own accents are heavy

[Loafer]

iopq,

If you ran out of luck and lost your gambling income, would you be interested in making phonetic transcriptions of the Russians speaking with accents for money? Would you be able to tell the difference between a slip of the tongue and a pattern?

[Loafer]

Also, ipoq,

please upload your samples of both Russian and English. Ideally take a reasonable break between the two. Like, talk to your mom for 5 minutes and then record the Russian sample. Then watch some flick for 5-10 minutes, call a friend (one of them other gamblers ) and record the English one.  Ideally both nonchalant spontaneous speech and reading something out loud.

What do you say?

[iopq]

Yes, I would be interested in doing something like that because I find it pretty interesting. I'm fairly knowledgeable about accents, considering my own family has heavy Russian accents.

Here, I'll upload my samples.

[iopq]

I pronounced these words in the audio, the rest of it I thought up on the spot

twenty
Wednesday
winter
word
border
birthday
visited
clothes
epitome

I'll go read something now in English
the folder I'm uploading to is here:
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=718b7e3f6ab70382ab1eab3e9fa335caacc4cfbfa494bf5f

[iopq]

I read my Pimsleur's booklet for the text, also now in the folder:
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=718b7e3f6ab70382ab1eab3e9fa335caacc4cfbfa494bf5f

[regn]

Gonna record something now. Coming up in a few minutes

[iopq]

OK, I uploaded the other two files to the folder as well. I've already posted the link above (twice.)
Sorry for the difference in volume, I didn't maximize one of the files.