Author Topic: Γνωστικοι  (Read 14481 times)

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Offline Sandar

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Reply #25 on: August 21, 2014, 21:35
Quote
Верования езидов восходят к зороастризму
:fp:
Готов сделать для себя открытие. Думал, есть два езид-народа — курды, сохранившие доисламскую религию, похожую на зороастризм, и езиды исламского происхождения, имеющие культ ибн Муавии (еретики впрочем). Русскоязычные курды и езиды, похоже, опасные слоноведы. Может, Вам легче было бы написать статью не на русском языке.
У меня был одногрупник езид. Приветливый, создавал впечатление великодушного парня, никаких этнографических и религиозных особенностей его семьи не знаю, мы не общались.

Offline Iskandar

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Reply #26 on: August 22, 2014, 09:55
Существенно верования и обычаи езидов мало отличаются от таковых у ярсанов, алевитов и даже друзов. Это всё один и тот же вид исламского гноситицизма, отталкивающегося от коранического сказания об Иблисе, отказавшемся поклониться Адаму. В мистической мысли Халифата этот миф приобрёл следующее, очень популярное развитие, отсутствующее в Коране: Иблис отказался поклониться, потому что он считал себя строгим монотеистом, которому не подобает кланяться кому-либо, кроме Аллаха. Можно почитать ранних «суфиев», там этот сюжет обсасывается досконально.

Именно поэтому утверждение, что езиды — дьяволопоклонники, в сущности справедливо. Малаки Таус — это мистический месопотамский «падший» ангел, демиург, находящийся в амбивалентных отношениях с Божеством (deus otiosus). Просто понятие «дьявола» в исламском гностицизме очень далеко от обычного мусульманского. Но исламским скачущим спалахуйкам не досуг разбираться в таких тонкостях: Аллах акбар, смерть ворогам!

Почему же езиды не считаются мусульманами, а ярсаны и алевиты — считаются, хотя они удалены от классического ислама ничуть не меньше? Мне кажется, этому способствует почитание у последних Али (в качестве эманации). Сами сектанты, что езиды, что алевиты, всё равно не считают мусульман единоверцами. Но если мусульманин слышит популярнейшее имя «Али»*, для него картина ясна: раз Али, значит, мусульмане, раз сильно почитают, значит, шииты.

Не так с езидами. Образ Йазида ибн Муавии (Султана Эзида) в их сознании уже чисто мифологический. Именно поэтому езидским и езидофильским интеллектуалам так легко даётся отрицание тождества Эзида с историческим персонажем, убийцей Хусейна. В то же время, самим суннитам имя Йазида тоже уже мало что говорит: суннизм — вовсе не зеркальное отражение шиизма, Йазид вовсе не является каким-то суннитским героем** и помнят о нём только знающие историю. Поэтому столь странных езидов, живущих среди суннитов, никто за мусульман и не считал обычно.

Шиитов, чующих антихусейновщину за версту, провести уже не так просто, именно поэтому самые крупные преследования езидов устраивали шииты. Исторически претензии шиитов и вправду обоснованы, но, конечно, по здравому рассуждению бессмыслены: возникший на антишиитском пафосе езидизм уже давно забыл свою политическую сущность.

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*напомню о распространённой ошибке считать, будто любое поминание добром Али ибн Абу Талиба — это шиизм; образ Али, героя и соратника Пророка, вполне популярен и в традиционном суннизме
**наоборот, его могут даже пожурить за убийство внука пророка, просто суннитов сама проблема Гражданской войны мало интересует и о ней вспоминают редко, в то время как у шиитов она лежит в основе их мировоззрения

Offline Nevik Xukxo

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Reply #27 on: August 22, 2014, 09:59
Существенно верования и обычаи езидов мало отличаются от таковых у ярсанов, алевитов и даже друзов. Это всё один и тот же вид исламского гноситицизма, отталкивающегося от коранического сказания об Иблисе, отказавшемся поклониться Адаму.
А как вообще все эти секты друг друга-то воспринимают? :???

Offline Iskandar

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Reply #28 on: August 22, 2014, 10:18
Подобные течения строятся не на абстрактном представлении о единоверцах (как в идеале у мусульман), а на конкретных внутренних социальных связях. Именно поэтому они очень устойчивы в своей среде и очень хрупки вне её. И легко дробятся барьерами при утрате контакта: например, даже алевиты Турции рассматриваются сейчас как нечто отличное от алавитов Сирии (обратите внимание на шмелизм, плюс на это влияет поднявший голову националистический дискурс: одни курды, другие арабы, хотя раньше это было совершенно иррелевантно).

"Антишиитов" езидов, конечно, они вообще воспринимать не будут.

Offline bvs

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Reply #29 on: August 22, 2014, 17:09
Принимают ислам
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyQj3-jrhTA" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyQj3-jrhTA</a>

Offline Sandar

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Reply #30 on: August 22, 2014, 21:28
Iskandar, спасибо за разъяснение.

Reply #31 on: August 22, 2014, 21:31
Подобные течения строятся не на абстрактном представлении о единоверцах (как в идеале у мусульман), а на конкретных внутренних социальных связях. Именно поэтому они очень устойчивы в своей среде и очень хрупки вне её. И легко дробятся барьерами при утрате контакта: например, даже алевиты Турции рассматриваются сейчас как нечто отличное от алавитов Сирии (обратите внимание на шмелизм, плюс на это влияет поднявший голову националистический дискурс: одни курды, другие арабы, хотя раньше это было совершенно иррелевантно).

"Антишиитов" езидов, конечно, они вообще воспринимать не будут.
Среди алевитов Турции тюрков собственно не меньше чем курдов, не так ли?

Reply #32 on: August 22, 2014, 21:34
Интересно, как гностическое мышление распространилось в новом — квази-исламском облике; в новых условиях — условиях Халифата?

И почему русскоязычные езиды хотят увязать свою традицию с "типа" Зороастризмом?

Reply #33 on: August 22, 2014, 21:44
Принимают ислам
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyQj3-jrhTA" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyQj3-jrhTA</a>
Интереснейшая церемония покорения и укрощения. В голове (пока что) не укладывается.

Offline Iskandar

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Reply #34 on: August 22, 2014, 21:47
Интересно, как гностическое мышление распространилось в новом — квази-исламском облике; в новых условиях — условиях Халифата?
Потому что Месопотамия. Довольно массово в сжатые сроки обращённая в ислам.

И почему русскоязычные езиды хотят увязать свою традицию с "типа" Зороастризмом?
Потому что модно. И добавляет «пять тысяч лет истории» во влажных снах Ханночки.

Offline Sandar

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Reply #35 on: August 22, 2014, 21:57
Интересно, как гностическое мышление распространилось в новом — квази-исламском облике; в новых условиях — условиях Халифата?
Потому что Месопотамия. Довольно массово в сжатые сроки обращённая в ислам.
Такой расклад в своей сложности противоречит популярному представлению, что гностицизм к тому времени (исламизация)  исчез.  :-[

Offline Ильич

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Reply #36 on: August 22, 2014, 22:33
У меня был одногрупник езид. Приветливый, создавал впечатление великодушного парня, никаких этнографических и религиозных особенностей его семьи не знаю, мы не общались.
Я немного общался в езидами здесь в Ельце. Здесь есть несколько семей, причем из разных мест (Грузия и Армения). По-русски мужчины говорят очень хорошо. Женщины похуже. Одну особенность я у них заметил. Знать три (минимум), четыре, пять языков у них норма.

Offline Iskandar

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Reply #37 on: August 24, 2014, 22:05
Такой расклад в своей сложности противоречит популярному представлению, что гностицизм к тому времени (исламизация)  исчез.  :-[
А мандеи? «Сабии-звёздопоклонники» вполне существовали.

Offline bvs

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Reply #38 on: August 24, 2014, 22:10
Гностиков и манихеев преследовали в Римской империи, но в Сасанидской им жить не мешали.

Offline Iskandar

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Reply #39 on: August 24, 2014, 22:14
Манихеям всё же мешали да ещё как.
Мандеи восхваляют Аршакидов, но судя по тому, что они сохранились, вряд ли у них были серьёзные проблемы до арабского нашествия.

Reply #40 on: August 25, 2014, 23:45
Hence the Yazidis come from?

You do not read this name in the writings of historians before the 12th century. The Yezidism was born of a merger between a Sufi order, 'Adwiyya, pre-Islamic Iranian religions (perhaps prior to Zoroastrianism) and Gnostic currents fertilize almost all mystical thought of Iraq, Kurdistan, Anatolia and Syria in the Middle Ages.

There are no reliable etymology regarding the origin of their name (no more than that the name "Kurd" for that matter), but several tracks. First "EZDI" or "Êzidî" is actually the name Yezidis give and is not a nickname that was used to designate them for outsiders, such as "kizil bach" for Alevis. Because of some connections with the Umayyads and Sheikh Adi was near the name of the Umayyad caliph Yazid (probably Yazid III more than the first, charged by the Shiites of the opprobrium of killing Hussein Kerbelah Yazid III appearing as a moral figure standing against his cousin Walid II). But the name reminds one strongly of God in the ancient Iranian languages: Yazata or Yazda. Today, a popular etymology proposed by the Kurds: Ez Da, or God created (given).

This is not the only name that designated in the history or even the only name they have given themselves. In some hymns (qawl) they call their community with Arab Muslim undeniably resonant terms as "Sinnat" (sunna!). They were also called Dasini or Tasini in the texts, the name of a Kurdish tribe of Sinjar which seems to have been largely converted to the new faith. Recall that the majority of today's Kurdish Yazidis, but there are still two Arab tribes Yezidi Kurdistan of Iraq and Syria and the Syrian Arab founder of tariqat 'Adawiyya located in Sinjar necessarily induces a contribution Arab cause in the community. However, the liturgical language is Kurdish, as closely related to the Yarsan or Ahl-e-Haqq religion, while the ritual language of the Alevis (who were often compared) is Turkish.

Today, Georgia and Armenia, because of the growing anti-Muslim sentiment, the Yezidis are encouraged to not declare "Kurdish" Yezidi while but apart from religion, nothing in ethnicity and language distinguishes kurmandjs other.

The social organization of Yazidis was (and is to some extent) just as tribal as other Kurds. But the feature that may be a relic of the old society of the ancient Iranian world is their division into castes, the three main ones being those of Sheikhs and Pirs (religious) and that of murîd, that is to say ordinary faithful. Again, note that "sheikh" and "murid" are common terms in the Sufi orders, the murid just being a disciple of a sheikh. Pir is an old Iranian term for the old, the wise man and is used equally for baba sheikh or Iran. Thing in common with the organization of a Sufi order, each has its murid pir and sheikh, but by birth and her lineage, instead of a personal spiritual membership.

There are also sub-caste specific religious functions, such as Qawwals the Fakirs and Koçaks. The Qawwal, as their name suggests, store, play and sing hymns and sacred music. Their costume is Arab. The Fakirs, dressed in black, have a fairly strrice religious life (the term comes from the Sufi fakir also. It means "poor" in Arabic and refers to religious mendicants). The koçak white dress and vest in the interview sacred places.

In addition, the lines within the Yezidi sometimes have special powers. Thus in Duhok, I talked with a young charming Sheikh who were part of the "croqueurs snake" that is to say, people who have the power to handle snakes without being bitten and also heal people their bites (the practice of biting their heads is as old in the Sunni Qadiriyya, in addition to pierce with swords). In koçaks there are also "visionary dreamers", just a little blind shamans, but these powers may occur in other Yezidi. This gives them the ability to move from one world to another in dreams awake.

This caste system is totally opposed to egalitarianism and intermarriage of Islam since all inter-religious marriage is prohibited in principle (today it is much more vague and it depends on the communities) and that Moreover, again in principle, inter-caste marriages are also prohibited. If this inbreeding is released in Syria and probably in the countries of the former Soviet Union, it still carries weight today in Iraqi Kurdistan, the Yezidis practicing honor killing as their Muslim compatriots. In general, the Yezidis, like the ancient Zoroastrians are quite obsessed with ritual purity and defilement of certain items and prolonged non-Yezidis contact, can make them fear, as in Roma, losing their native species .

Besides caste, there is also the famous "brotherhood of beyond" known as Alevi, a mystical form of affrèrement quite remarkably widespread among Kurds, which is reminiscent of some reminiscences the former group "akhi" or brotherhoods influential in medieval art, inspired by the moral code of chivalry and futuwwat Sufis.

Their story:

In 1111, about 505 of the Hegira, a Sunni Sufi sheikh of the fittest, but very focused on asceticism, Sheikh Adi ibn Musafir, of Syrian origin, perhaps related or pro-Umayyad family (hence the name of Yezidi), settled in the Kurdish mountains of Sinjar, held mainly by Kurds in the Hakkariyya. These Kurds were they all Muslims? Not sure. Heresies and "indigenous" religions persist long in the mountains, and it seems as if the Kurds revered Sheikh Adi, it's more because of his extreme asceticism and his charismatic personality. It quickly became a spiritual figure of legend. He died in 1162, very old, it seems, and is buried at Lalesh, where he founded a Sufi tariqat, a branch of the 'Adawiyya, order all that has also Sunni. Sufis who have joined them, including his nephew, since he himself has no children, are Syrians, or perhaps other Arabs. And here to live with the Kurds, perhaps partially, or not at all to Islam, in an isolated area, where tribes also spend their time attacking and ransom caravans, as evidenced by angrily Spanish traveler Ibn Djubayr who passes by to 1183.
At that time, his nephew Sheikh Sakhr al-Din Abu-l-Barakat had succeeded him. And like his uncle on the end of his life, he seems to be very busy railing against exaggerations and innovations in Sufi practices, as well as the excessive worship of Sheikh Adi. This suggests that the unfortunate Syrian Sufis were somewhat overwhelmed and outvoted by the Kurdish mountaineers, who intended to worship in their own way. We should not however see it only a collection of superstitions and Campagnardes Islam misunderstood. The "Yezidism" then as we know is a very complex religion based on angelology and Gnosticism, as did their cousins yarsans.

In the 13th century, the Mongol invasion devastated and ruined the Abbasid state. The invasions of Tamerlane complete undoing the central government in the early 15th century. At that time, Yezidis seem to form a religious group apart and the key role of Sheikh Adi, as the pivot of heaven and earth, the guarantor of his followers in the afterlife, threshold and therefore the other intercessor world seems spent. Note that this messianic function given to Sheikh Adi has parallels with the figure of the Imam of the Ismailis and the Shiite Mahdi or extreme design Sufi Sheikh.

Reply #41 on: August 25, 2014, 23:45
Remarkably, while in the 19th and 20th centuries, the most diverse rantings can be read on the Yezidis, who gives a sensible and plausible version of the training is Yezidi Sheref Khan of Bitlis, author of the first Kurdish national history:

"Most Kurds are rite Shafiite and follow Islamic law and the Sunnah of the Prophet - may he be blessed They pay tribute to the Companions and caliphs and obey the great ulema regarding the privileges and obligations prayer, alms, pilgrimage to Mecca, and they fast with great zeal.

To this we must except a few districts and dependencies in the region of Mosul and Syria, namely Tasini, the Khalidi, the Psiyân and some Bukhtî, and Dunbulî Mahmudi, who are Yezidi and disciples of Shaykh Adi b. Musafir and a faithful Marwanid caliphs whom they claim to be related. Their mistaken belief is that Shaykh Adi, whose tomb is in the Valley Lalesh in the district of Mosul, took upon himself all the obligations of daily prayers and fasting, and on the Day of Judgment, they will go right to Paradis, without review or question. They feuded with animosity flawless mullah Zahir. "
(Sherefname, The Origins of the Kurds and their way of life).

Ottoman repression against Alevis, Shabaks and other dissident groups suspected Shiite sympathies did not spare the Yezidis, who had everything against them both Christians and Muslims. At the end of the Ottoman Empire, however, they came in for the great anti-Christian massacres of 1895 and also of the Armenian and Assyrian Genocide. Those who had fled réchappèrent with Armenians in the Russian land, and that's why the majority of Kurds in Armenia and Georgia are Yezidis.

Religion:

Yezidis are monotheists. They believe that one God created the world, as in the cosmogony of Yarsan, originally had the shape of a pearl floating on the primordial waters. But God has left the government of this world to seven angels, "heft sirr" Secrets or September (again kinship with Yarsan is crying). The most prominent of these angels is Malik al-Taus, who is the first created by God, his direct light, while the other six, presumably, as in any Muslim angelology of Farabî, Avicenna to Suhrawardi, Prime proceed created but not the First, under the precept that Plotinus Unit can output only one, and that's just from the First Angel by recession of the original perfection, we leave little pretty Unit until the outbreak of the multiplicity of the physical world (in different circumstances depending on your point of view Ismaili, Avicenna, sohrawardien) of the world body, said barzakh as Suhrawardi.

Yazidis are to be placed in this line: Angel First and perfect is Malik al-Taus after him come the other six. Then, as in the Muslim narrative, God made Adam from dust and water and ordered the angels to worship him (to take it to qibla). According to Islam, the most zealous of angels, Iblis refused to bow down to this being made of mud and water, it was made of air and fire. For this reason, in Islam, Iblis was deposed and thus became Satan, doomed to lose men and the jealous.

For Ismailis, it's a little more complicated and it is very closely related to the Yezidi interpretation of this cosmic drama. There fault and error THIRD of Angel, who is also the heavenly Adam, who wants to be his own qibla instead of worshiping God through the First and Second Angels. It gets too late, it is demoted to the Tenth Angel, plus his failure created Iblis, who is darkness, or evil if you will. In addition the lower angelic lights no longer consider as their superior and refuse him turn allegiance. Then they are also overwhelmed by darkness and Tenth Angel-Adam sees no alternative but to precipitate all this world into the physical world, he creates for the occasion, where they can buy in staining of réescalader degrees that separate the darkness of the world of light.

For the Yezidis, the Angel-Taus refused to worship Adam, but far from being punished by God was praised by who gave him charge of the physical world to represent him. It was a test, if you will, and the other six were caught out. Al-Malik al Taus made a turn in its fields every Wednesday, a day so blessed in Yazidis. The connection Iblis or Shaytan-Taus is real, but it is wrong to make Malik al Taus Yezidis a demonic figure. Rather, it is a Gnostic figure. This is the physical world is evil or "darkened", not his angel and as for the rest of the Gnostics, good and evil exist in every soul and that's the man to get rid of the darkness to choose light. The difference is that Sheikh Adi, as already stated Sheref Khan ahead took on himself the sins of his community and that is why the Yezidis escape the final exam terrible Angels 2 Inspectors and Munker Nakir who question the deceased Muslim before deciding where to send it. On the other hand, the Yezidis believe in reincarnation and the worst fear for them is to not reinvent Yezidis (such as Druze).

Until fairly recently, all religious teaching was oral and writing practice prohibited. Revealing the secrets to non-Yezidi Yezidi deserved death. The so-called Yezidis "sacred books", the Black Book and Djilwa are fake, written by one or Nestorian Christians, who were aware of their beliefs and transcribed what they heard and understood to please the early Orientalists. There has to take and let everything out. The most reliable, although long transmitted orally, and have therefore been adjusted over time sources are the Hymns or Qewl.

practices:

Wednesday is a blessed day, there are no major binding in Islam as prayer gatherings. They pray to the rising sun and at certain times, kissing the neck of their shirts (special white cloth).

They kept the ancient cults Iranian number of taboos to preserve the purity of the elements (water, earth, fire). Pronounce the name of Satan is thus prohibited, either because it has a negative connotation in the swearing of Islam or Christian or because the name of respect should not be spoken or written (much like the Jewish God). The blue color is also taboo because its Kurdish name "Shin" contains just the sound "sh" Shaytan. A similar taboo based on the similarity of sounds applies to salad "xas" which recalls the name of a prophet. Previously, Yezidi share with Muslims the prohibition of alcohol and pork, but apart from these pious people banned lose strength.

But as Sufi Muslims, Alevis, the Yaresan they revere many "saints" and their tombs, in addition to that of Sheikh Adi are the object of pilgrimage. The Sacred Valley of Sinjar is so called the valley of "40" saints that evokes the famous Sufi abdals 40. Baucoup villages also have their local saint. But Lalesh is obviously the "Meccas" Yezidis and this comparison is not unreasonable because many "stations" borrows under the Muslim pilgrimage. At the entrance to the valley the little bridge is called "Sirat" pirra silat) Recalling the bridge leading to the gate of Paradise and the Muslim holy spring in the temple is the "zam zam". The one on the outside by against, called Kurdish Kani Spi (the white source). A mountain valley near ela is called "Arafat" as in Mecca and another "Mishet" (as in Medina).

But the Sanjak (statues) of Malak Taus, depicted as a peacock definitively break with the forbidden "idol" of Islam.

Frequent and recommended immersion in the Zam Zam source may have to do with not Christian but Mandaean baptism (another religion apart from Iraq). As for circumcision, it is almost universal in the Middle East. Their festivals are mixed, some lunar Islam as other solar more "Iranian". They celebrate Newroz spring which is also the new Iranian year (Sarsal). There are periods of fasting 40 days in winter and summer but only for religious. Other days are connected to ancient solar festivals, those of winter soltice. Sacrificing an ox during the feast of seven days where all converge on Lalesh is also a practice that was also observed in Iranian Kurdistan, in Yarsan and are reminiscent the Mithraic or Zoroastrian symbol of Newroz: Taurus struck by Leo or the bull slain by Mithra whose blood fertilizes the earth.

Reply #42 on: August 26, 2014, 10:00
Гуглоперевод, но с какого-то великоевропейского языка, поэтому читабельно и понимабельно.

Offline Хворост

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Reply #43 on: August 26, 2014, 20:05
Существенно верования и обычаи езидов мало отличаются от таковых у ярсанов, алевитов и даже друзов. Это всё один и тот же вид исламского гноситицизма, отталкивающегося от коранического сказания об Иблисе, отказавшемся поклониться Адаму.
Нубовопрос: имеют ли исмаилиты к этому какое-то отношение?
Когда я сажала, ливала смородину,
Она превращала мой сад в огородину.
Она превращала, рубила дрова,
На них высекая попутно слова.
arseniiv

Offline bvs

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Reply #44 on: August 26, 2014, 20:13
Those who had fled réchappèrent with Armenians in the Russian land, and that's why the majority of Kurds in Armenia and Georgia are Yezidis.
Еще потому, что курдов-мусульман выселили в Среднюю Азию в 1937-м.

Offline Iskandar

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Reply #45 on: August 26, 2014, 21:57
Нубовопрос: имеют ли исмаилиты к этому какое-то отношение?
Исмаилиты тоже базировались первично в Месопатамии (в Куфе), но в их идеях, кажется, больше неоплатонизма и рационализма.

Reply #46 on: August 27, 2014, 16:18
Среди алевитов Турции тюрков собственно не меньше чем курдов, не так ли?
Говорят, там чуть ли не алевитские кавли на турецком языке.

Offline Nevik Xukxo

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Reply #47 on: August 27, 2014, 16:19
Так алевиты в отличии от алавитов не имеют официального статуса или как? :???

Offline Iskandar

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Reply #48 on: August 27, 2014, 16:23
В смысле статуса?
Турция — светское мононациональное государство, где курдов вообще не существует.

Offline Nevik Xukxo

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Reply #49 on: August 27, 2014, 16:25
Турция — светское мононациональное государство, где курдов вообще не существует.
То ись никаких алевитских мечетей или что у них и офиц. статистики скока их? :what:

 

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