Этимология имени Gwydion

[Magnus]

Здравствуйте, уважаемые форумчане!

Читая сборник валлийских легенд ''Мабиногион'', наткнулся на интересное имя одного из героев этих повестей. Вот тут нашел в сети интересный разбор этого имени.

"The etymology of his name is uncertain. The intervocalic "-d-" in the name implies descent from an Early Welsh "*-t-" according to the established sound changes in the history of the Welsh language: Early Welsh intervocalic "*-t-" routinely developed into Old Welsh -d- (McCone, 1996) . This then rules out suggestions that the name is related to Modern Welsh words like "gwyddion" 'ploughs, looms' or "gwydd" 'trees' because these words are descended from the Proto-Celtic word "*widu" 'wood' with an intervocalic "*-d-".Likewise, suggestions that the name is related to the Modern Welsh word "gwyddonydd" 'scientist' is unsustainable for similar reasons because the source of this word is the Proto-Celtic "*weid-o-" 'knowledge' which also must be reconstructed with an intervocalic "*-d-" [http://www.wales.ac.uk/documents/external/cawcs/PCl-MoE.pdf] . The intervocalic "*-d-" in these words would not have developed into "-dd-" until post-Early-Welsh periods (McCone, 1996). Rather, if the word is assumed to be native in origin, established knowledge about regular sound change in the history of Welsh would encourage one to relate the name to Proto-Celtic roots with forms such as "*weit-" "*wit-" and "*wīt-".

A root "*wet-" 'say, recite poetry' seems reconstructible for Proto-Celtic [http://www.wales.ac.uk/documents/external/cawcs/PCl-MoE.pdf] and this could plausibly have had a lengthened form "*wīt-". A verbal suffix *"-jā-", forming abstract nouns from verbal roots, is also reconstructible for Proto-Celtic [http://www.wales.ac.uk/documents/external/cawcs/PCl-MoE.pdf] , and this is frequently suffixed with "*-n-os" when masculine names are derived from nouns ending in "*-jā-". The name Gwydion can then plausibly be reconstructed as *"wīt-jā-n-os", an extended masculine form of *"wīt-jā"- meaning 'poetic recital, speech.'

All the same, this is not the only possibility. A root *"wī-ti" 'food' with the related *"wīto"- 'feast' is also reconstructible for Proto-Celtic [http://www.wales.ac.uk/documents/external/cawcs/PCl-MoE.pdf] and the former may plausibly have had extended forms *"wī-ti-o" and *"wī-ti-o-nos". The name Gwydion can also be held to be derived from a Proto-Celtic *"wī-ti-o-nos" 'food.' This word would then be related to Proto-Celtic *"witt"- 'vein' (whence Modern Welsh "gwythien" 'blood vessel' Old Irish "féith" 'sinew, vein) and *"wit-n-o"- 'sinewy, tough' (whence Modern Welsh "gwydn" 'tough'). A root *"weit"- 'thread' related to *"witt"- 'vein,' is also reconstructible for Proto-Celtic [http://www.wales.ac.uk/documents/external/cawcs/PCl-MoE.pdf] .
Related to the Old Irish "féith" 'sinew' is Irish "féith" 'sinuous stream, bog-rill, marsh-rill' [http://www.ceantar.org/Dicts/MB2/mb18.html#féith] . The name "Gwydion", then, may be derived from a hypothetical Proto-Celtic *"Witi-o-no-s" 'great rill', a possible extended variant form of *"weiti"- in the sense of 'sinuous stream.'

Another possibility is that the word is not a native item and is related to the Modern Welsh word "gwŷd" 'vice,' a borrowing, like the English word "vice", from the Latin "vitium" 'offense, defect.' The etymology of the name Gwydion is therefore uncertain but it is possible to limit the etymology to a small number of plausible possibilities."

Меня, как ''чайника'',  интересует вопрос:  что это за суффиксы ''-o -no'' в имени? И разве может быть в индоевропейских языках суффикс ''–nos'' ? Могло ли имя звучать как Witi-os?

[Magnus]

В продолжение темы. Нашел по сабжу еще информацию с англоязычных форумов.

"Gwydion, as we have the name, could perfectly well mean 'Divine Knower', < *Wetionos. But there's always been something a bit fishy about the name to me. It's the only one of these -on names to have an -i- before the suffix. Pedantic and petty as this might seem, that's odd, linguistically. 'Divine Knower' should really have been **Wetonos, ---> **Gwydon. But it ain't, and odd things require explanations.

In an Old Welsh source, we have Lou hen map Guidgen, which might just be 'Lleu the Old, son of ?Gwydion.

If this is our Lleu Llaw Gyffes, then the older form of Gwydion might have been the fairly common name Guidgen, modern Welsh Gwyddien, corresponding to Old Irish Fidgen, both from Celtic *Widu-genos, and meaning 'One Born of Trees'. By virtue of being associated with the family of Don, our hypothetical Gwyddien may have attracted the -on ending from Amaethon, Gofannon, Mabon etc, sometime in the so-called dark ages. This could only have happened after the pagan period, after the various sound changes between 450 and 600 AD had taken place: you could easily mix up Gwyddien and Gwydion, but not Widugenos and Wetionos.)

This certainly doesn't mean Gwydion definitely wasn't a god, because it's not certain that this Lou Hen is our Lleu Llaw Gyffes. But it is suggestive, and if he WAS a god, his ancient name may well have been Widugenos. But the fact that Welsh Gwyddien and Irish Fidgen are fairly common names borne by historical people is a bit worrisome: bare theonyms are not usually used as human personal names. (The only one I can think of is Llywelyn < *Lugubelinus, and it should be borne in mind that that name would not have seemed mythological or divine to speakers of medieval Welsh, for whom it would have evoked the unrelated word llyw, 'lord'.) No real historical worthy called themselves Mabon or Modron or Nudd or Amaethon, for example; but there were historical Gwyddiens.

I would now put a tentative question mark---from a purely academic standpoint---over Gwydion's divine status."

[Magnus]

Версия этимологизации предложенная Университетом Уэльса:

''Etymology of the name

The reconstructed lexis of the Proto-Celtic language as collated by the University of Wales (http://www.wales.ac.uk/documents/external/cawcs/pcl-moe.pdf ) suggests that the name is likely to be ultimately derived from the Proto-Celtic *Weidī-kondos. This Proto-Celtic word connotes the semantics of 'knowing sense.' This apparent semantic connotation has led Dr. John Koch at the University of Wales Centre for Advanced Welsh & Celtic Studies to propose that the original nature of this deity may well have been a personification of "cunning awareness". This theory would account for the deity's associations with trickery and self-enlightened exploits.

Probable diachronic changes in the form of the name

Following the known laws of Celtic diachronic linguistics as elucidated by Marian B. Hughes at the University of Wales Centre for Advanced Welsh & Celtic Studies, the Proto-Celtic name *Weidī-kondos would have been inherited into Brythonic in the form of *Vedicondos. This in turn would render Old Welsh *Gwydichonn, becoming Welsh Gwydion.''

Из Кельтской Энциклопедии Мэри Джонс:

''The meaning is difficult to explain. The word "gwyddion" means "trees" or "forest" {a more common word is goddeu, which is related}, but can also mean "weaver" and "loom." A related word, "gwyddonydd," means "scientist." Now, taking into consideration that the word Druid--magician, priest, and judge of Celtic society--is thought to derive from "drus" meaning oak, it is likely that the word for scientist is derived from forest--the man of learning gained his learning from nature. Hense, the name implies one who is learned, steeped in knowledge both esoteric and scientific, and weaves his way in spells and science, rather like an alchemist.

Moreover, the figure of Gwydion is likely related to the Celtic god Mercury Uiducus, as Gwydion may be derived from *Uidugenos, which then in archaic Welsh is Guidgen, found in the Harleian 3859 genealogies: "Lou hen map Guidgen" (i.e. Lleu son of Gwydion) in the Brycheiniog list. The name possibly means "one born of wood."

[Tys Pats]

...
Меня, как ''чайника'',  интересует вопрос:  что это за суффиксы ''-o -no'' в имени? И разве может быть в индоевропейских языках суффикс ''–nos'' ? Могло ли имя звучать как Witi-os?

(wikt/en) Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-European/-nós

[Magnus]

Да, тут я, конечно, дал маху.

[Magnus]

(wikt/en) Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-European/-nós

То есть -nós - это суффикс отглагольного прилагательного? Тогда, как бы могло звучать имя производное от глаголя ''знающий'', к примеру uid/ueid?

[Devorator linguarum]

Пушкинский Гвидон Салтанович к нему отношение имеет?

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В Вики написано, что имя Гвидон — Пушкин заимствовал из лубочного цикла о Бове-королевиче, являвшегося русской интерпретацией французского рыцарского романа. Гвидоном там зовётся отец Бовы. В этих же лубочных картинках фигурирует и противник Бовы, отец Лукапера богатыря — Салтан, иногда Салтан Салтанович (как и в сказке, записанной Пушкиным). Итальянское имя «Гвидо» — ср. французское guide — означает «вождь», «руководитель». «Пушкин не мог не обратить внимания на значение этого имени, тем более, что в лубочных сюжетах о Бове, как и во французском романе, противопоставление ,,западного" Гвидона ,,восточному" Салтану имеет существенное значение».

Хотя, если изначально эта легенда начала ''гулять'' по Франции из Бретани, а туда могла попасть из Уэльса...

[Magnus]

Вот, еще из Вики:

''Источник повести — знаменитая поэма-хроника «Французские короли» (итал. I reali di Francia), относящаяся к XIV веку. Поэма делится на 6 книг, из которых 4-я посвящена Бэву из Антона (итал. Bovo d'Antona), прототипу Бовы Королевича. Часть эта подвергалась бесчисленным переработкам, из которых наиболее замечательны северно-французская и итальянская стихотворная поэма о Бэве, появившаяся около 1480 года в Болонье и имевшая до XVII века около 25 изданий. Впрочем, однозначной версии по вопросу появления итальянской поэмы о Бэве нет, по альтернативным данным авторство итальянского варианта романа приписывают Илии (Эле) Бохеру и датируют 1509 годом.

Ранее считалось, что русская повесть примыкает к итальянской редакции поэмы «Buovo d'Antona» или из 4-ой книги «I reali di Francia». Факты переданы так же, как в итальянском романе, имена отчасти переданы с русским произношением, отчасти изменены: Бова соответствует итал. Buova, Гвидон — герцогу Guido d'Antoni, дядька Бовы Симбальда — Sinebaldo, Додон — Duodo di Maganza, Дружевна — Drusiniana; но, с другой стороны, Личарда, слуга Гвидона — в итальянском тексте безымянный посланник, жена Гвидона не Милитриса, a Brandoria и т. д.

Современные исследователи считают, что сюжет восходит к французским сказаниям о подвигах рыцаря Бово д'Антона. В то же время русские списки восходят к белорусскому пересказу сербохорватского перевода венецианского издания книги о Бово д'Антона. На русском языке повесть известна в пяти редакциях. Начиная с XVIII века неоднократно издавалась как лубочная книга; сюжет стал достоянием фольклора.''

Эти бродячие сюжеты могли столетиями ходить - может даже с бретонскими бардами - по всей Франции. Оказывается, что и у англичан есть подобная легенда.

(wiki/ru) Бэв_из_Антона