Biełarusian

[Seth]

hi folks!

i've been studying russian for 1 and a half year now. and once while i was surfing in the internet, i found out that you can write belarusian also in latin letters. so i started interesting myself in this language as well. I think their orthography is really cool! - Much easier than russian orthography.

Anyway. I've got a  question concerning biełaruska łacinka:

what keyboard-layout do people use who use the łacinka?
i mean there are letters from the polish keyboard as well as from the croation.
i think it's really complicated to write in łacinka on the computer.

thank you for your answers,

nice greetings,
Seth

[sknente]

http://www.zedlik.com/lacinka/pragramy/kbdbeltc/

[Vertaler]

Much easier than russian orthography.

Please prove how it is easier for a foreigner. As for me, it is sufficiently more difficult for a man from "outer" world.

[andrewsiak]

Much easier than russian orthography.

Please prove how it is easier for a foreigner. As for me, it is sufficiently more difficult for a man from "outer" world.

At least you write it as you pronounce it.

[Vertaler]

At least you write it as you pronounce it.

O RLY? Didn't know it.

A little suggestion: think at home in how many ways you can spell the word usually spelled as хтосьці in both orthographies.

[andrewsiak]

You've got rules standardized much more than in Russian, as when you see "malako", you know you pronounce two a's unstressed and you stress the last o. Unlike in Russian when you need to guess whether it's mOlaka, malOka or malakO.

[Vertaler]

You've got rules standardized much more than in Russian, as when you see "malako", you know you pronounce two a's unstressed and you stress the last o. Unlike in Russian when you need to guess whether it's mOlaka, malOka or malakO.

Are we learning a heavily flective language or just reading a poem outloud?

[sknente]

But he can't pronounce anything, he's a gaijin na no desu. Morphological spelling is better for gaijins, as they can see how the different wordforms are related to each other.

[sknente]

But then it says "Язык:   Ukrainian" in his profile...

[Seth]

hi again,

Цитата: andrewsiak от Сегодня в 15:31
You've got rules standardized much more than in Russian, as when you see "malako", you know you pronounce two a's unstressed and you stress the last o. Unlike in Russian when you need to guess whether it's mOlaka, malOka or malakO.

Цитата: andrewsiak от Сегодня в 15:11
At least you write it as you pronounce it.

That's exactly what i meant when i wrote that biełaruski is much easier than russian.

but as i have written i'm just interested in the language. i am not studying. but i'm studying russian!

"Яазык: Ukraininan.!"

don't know who wrote that - but why are you interested? i am generelly interested in slawionic languages and i learned by myself how to read ukrainian. but  because it seems to offend you that much, i've changed into english! 

Thank you for the link, sknente!

Nice Greetings, Seth

[sknente]

>but because it seems to offend you that much
Don't worry, easy... ( ¯‿¯) No one is offended, easy, it's just I thought you might be a fellow Ukrainian, which would nullify any pronunciation related problems, making >>212080 irrelevant.

>i've changed into english!
But is such a statement not removed from reality to any lesser degree than the previous to it implicit proclamation of ukrainity?

>Nice Greetings
Greetings which are nice... that is nice. Most people only use non-nice greetings these days, like facial violence, or worse, rape. Nice Greetings to you as well, Seth, please try to take it easy.

[andrewsiak]

sknente, sorry, but what a nerd you are.

[sknente]

Oh, you flatter me. Surely this humble maiden which stands here shamed before your eyes, ( *≖‿≖*), is not of a caliber anywhere near enough to stand up to the scholarly prowess of a man whose dedication is such that he has spent countless hours hunched behind his desk, studying dusty monastic scrolls, those of the principality of Chiev, and those of the Grad Novus, gaining thus fluency in the ancestral tongue...

[andrewsiak]

wha'eva

[Seth]

Hi folks,

I don't know if it is allowed to write another topic into a post you have opened.

But I've got another question concerning Slavionic Languages.
This times it's Polish:

As you already know I am studying Russian and so I, of course, also know the facts about palatal and non palatal consonants.

I wondered how to pronounce Polish and so I had a look in the Internet and wrote the following list. Could you please tell me, if I had understood that correctly?

skente:
ci ↔ ть, si ↔ сь, zi ↔ зь, dzi ↔ дь, rz ↔ рь, l = ль, ł ↔ л, ż ↔ ж, cz ↔ ч, and sz ↔ ш.

palatal: ci  ↔ ть
             ń = нь
             zi   ↔ зь; dzi ↔ дь
             si  ↔ сь
             rz ↔  рь
             l = ль

not palatal: cz ↔ ч
                   ł ↔ л
                   sz ↔ ш
                   ż ↔ ж

Thank you so far.

Nice Greetings,
Seth
                 

[sknente]

You can't just put an equals sign between Polish and Russian letters like that, these are two different languages with vastly divergent phonetic inventories, Polish «sz» is pronounced very differently from Russian «ш», for instance, while «ł» resembles the sound of «л» only at the ends of syllables, and only slightly so.

However, from an etymological point of view, the correlations would generally be such that ci ↔ ть, si ↔ сь, zi ↔ зь, dzi ↔ дь, rz ↔ рь, l = ль, ł ↔ л, ż ↔ ж, cz ↔ ч, and sz ↔ ш.

[Seth]

hi sknente

O cool, thank you!

But what about ź, ś and ć then?

Nice greetings,
Seth

[Python]

zi = ź = жь (Why are there two possibilities?)

As far as I know, zi/si/ci  for ź/ś/ć may be used before vovels only. The letter "i" is a vovel itself, and so it should not be used like Cyrillik voiceless ь.

rz = ż = ж (Why are there also two possibilties?)

These posibilities have historic reasons. ż and rz evolved from the different consonants. Also, rz sometimes may be pronounced like sz=ш. Another example of two posibilities for the same sound is u and ó, which evolved from the different vovels.

[Rōmānus]

Polish «sz» is pronounced very differently from Russian «ш»

Says who?

[Virginis]

Polish «sz » has exactly the same sound as Russian «ш». «ł» can be pronounced like Russian hard «л» or like English «w», depending on region, but nowadays [w] vastly prevails. 

[Rōmānus]

«ł» can be pronounced like Russian hard «л»

"Саn be", but is not. This type of pronunciation is thoroghly obsolete throughout all regions of Poland

[andrewsiak]

Polish «sz» is pronounced very differently from Russian «ш»

Says who?

exactly 

[Seth]

hi all

thanks for your answers!

[Хворост]

Russian ш is velarized, what about sz?

[Rōmānus]

Russian ш is velarized, what about sz?

1. Russian ш is not velarized
2. Anyway, Russian ш and Polish sz are identical