Лингвофорум

Цитировать

Spoiler ⇓⇓⇓

The minuscule form of 's' was 'ſ', called the long s, up to the fourteenth century or so, and the form 'S' was used then only as uppercase in the same manner that the forms 'G' and 'A' are only uppercase. With the introduction of printing, the modern form 's' began to be used at the end of words by some printers. Later, it was used everywhere in print and eventually spread to manuscript letters as well. For example, "sinfulness" would be rendered as "ſinfulneſſ" in all medieval hands, and later it was "ſinfulneſs" in some blackletter hands and in print. The modern spelling "sinfulness" did not become widespread in print until the beginning of the 19th century, largely to prevent confusion of 'ſ' with the lowercase 'f' in typefaces which had a very short horizontal stroke in their lowercase 'f'. The ligature of 'ſs' (or 'ſz') became the German Eszett, 'ß'.

It is commonly believed that it was the London printer John Bell (1745–1831) who popularized the modern "round s", in place of the elongated 'ſ', although exactly when he did this is unclear. In his multivolume series, The British Theatre, he began using the short form instead of the elongated letter circa 1785, not entirely at first but in later years more and more consistently. His edition of Shakespeare, in 1785, was advertised with the claim that he "ventured to depart from the common mode by rejecting the long 'ſ' in favor of the round one, as being less liable to error....."[3] In the field of more ephemeral publications, Bell began a London newspaper called The World, of which it has been said that a "vital change ... first made in The World, entitled No. 1 of that paper (for Monday, January 1, 1787) to be chronicled in any kalendar of typographical progress: the abolition of the long 'ſ'...."[4] Bell may have popularized it, but he did not invent it; in his letter of March 26, 1786 to Francis Childs, Benjamin Franklin wrote "the Round s .... begins to be the Mode, and in nice printing the Long 'ſ' is rejected entirely."

---

[3]  Stanley Morison, A Memoir of John Bell, 1745–1831 (1930, Cambridge Univ. Press) page 105; Daniel Berkeley Updike, Printing Types, Their History, Forms, and Use – a study in survivals (2nd. ed, 1951, Harvard Univ. Press) page 293.

[4]  Stanley Morison, A Memoir of John Bell, 1745–1831 (1930, Cambridge Univ. Press) page 118.

Цитата: Hellerick от марта 27, 2015, 02:41
В немецком длинная S, вроде бы, использовалась перед согласными.

А еще в старых испанских картах мне нравится, как предлог DE там объединяют в лигатуру типа Ð. Жаль, что не пошло, мог бы получиться еще один международный значок типа &.

Цитата: . от марта 27, 2015, 01:19
(wiki/en) S#Long_s (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S#Long_s)

Цитировать

Spoiler ⇓⇓⇓

The minuscule form of 's' was 'ſ', called the long s, up to the fourteenth century or so, and the form 'S' was used then only as uppercase in the same manner that the forms 'G' and 'A' are only uppercase. With the introduction of printing, the modern form 's' began to be used at the end of words by some printers. Later, it was used everywhere in print and eventually spread to manuscript letters as well. For example, "sinfulness" would be rendered as "ſinfulneſſ" in all medieval hands, and later it was "ſinfulneſs" in some blackletter hands and in print. The modern spelling "sinfulness" did not become widespread in print until the beginning of the 19th century, largely to prevent confusion of 'ſ' with the lowercase 'f' in typefaces which had a very short horizontal stroke in their lowercase 'f'. The ligature of 'ſs' (or 'ſz') became the German Eszett, 'ß'.

It is commonly believed that it was the London printer John Bell (1745–1831) who popularized the modern "round s", in place of the elongated 'ſ', although exactly when he did this is unclear. In his multivolume series, The British Theatre, he began using the short form instead of the elongated letter circa 1785, not entirely at first but in later years more and more consistently. His edition of Shakespeare, in 1785, was advertised with the claim that he "ventured to depart from the common mode by rejecting the long 'ſ' in favor of the round one, as being less liable to error....."[3] In the field of more ephemeral publications, Bell began a London newspaper called The World, of which it has been said that a "vital change ... first made in The World, entitled No. 1 of that paper (for Monday, January 1, 1787) to be chronicled in any kalendar of typographical progress: the abolition of the long 'ſ'...."[4] Bell may have popularized it, but he did not invent it; in his letter of March 26, 1786 to Francis Childs, Benjamin Franklin wrote "the Round s .... begins to be the Mode, and in nice printing the Long 'ſ' is rejected entirely."

---

[3]  Stanley Morison, A Memoir of John Bell, 1745–1831 (1930, Cambridge Univ. Press) page 105; Daniel Berkeley Updike, Printing Types, Their History, Forms, and Use – a study in survivals (2nd. ed, 1951, Harvard Univ. Press) page 293.

[4]  Stanley Morison, A Memoir of John Bell, 1745–1831 (1930, Cambridge Univ. Press) page 118.

Цитата: cetsalcoatle от марта 28, 2015, 20:29

Цитата: . от марта 27, 2015, 01:19
(wiki/en) S#Long_s (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S#Long_s)

Цитировать

Spoiler ⇓⇓⇓

The minuscule form of 's' was 'ſ', called the long s, up to the fourteenth century or so, and the form 'S' was used then only as uppercase in the same manner that the forms 'G' and 'A' are only uppercase. With the introduction of printing, the modern form 's' began to be used at the end of words by some printers. Later, it was used everywhere in print and eventually spread to manuscript letters as well. For example, "sinfulness" would be rendered as "ſinfulneſſ" in all medieval hands, and later it was "ſinfulneſs" in some blackletter hands and in print. The modern spelling "sinfulness" did not become widespread in print until the beginning of the 19th century, largely to prevent confusion of 'ſ' with the lowercase 'f' in typefaces which had a very short horizontal stroke in their lowercase 'f'. The ligature of 'ſs' (or 'ſz') became the German Eszett, 'ß'.

It is commonly believed that it was the London printer John Bell (1745–1831) who popularized the modern "round s", in place of the elongated 'ſ', although exactly when he did this is unclear. In his multivolume series, The British Theatre, he began using the short form instead of the elongated letter circa 1785, not entirely at first but in later years more and more consistently. His edition of Shakespeare, in 1785, was advertised with the claim that he "ventured to depart from the common mode by rejecting the long 'ſ' in favor of the round one, as being less liable to error....."[3] In the field of more ephemeral publications, Bell began a London newspaper called The World, of which it has been said that a "vital change ... first made in The World, entitled No. 1 of that paper (for Monday, January 1, 1787) to be chronicled in any kalendar of typographical progress: the abolition of the long 'ſ'...."[4] Bell may have popularized it, but he did not invent it; in his letter of March 26, 1786 to Francis Childs, Benjamin Franklin wrote "the Round s .... begins to be the Mode, and in nice printing the Long 'ſ' is rejected entirely."

---

[3]  Stanley Morison, A Memoir of John Bell, 1745–1831 (1930, Cambridge Univ. Press) page 105; Daniel Berkeley Updike, Printing Types, Their History, Forms, and Use – a study in survivals (2nd. ed, 1951, Harvard Univ. Press) page 293.

[4]  Stanley Morison, A Memoir of John Bell, 1745–1831 (1930, Cambridge Univ. Press) page 118.

Gratiam ago. :yes:

Цитата: Wolliger Mensch от марта 28, 2015, 21:14

Цитата: cetsalcoatle от марта 28, 2015, 20:29

Цитата: . от марта 27, 2015, 01:19
(wiki/en) S#Long_s (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S#Long_s)

Цитировать

Spoiler ⇓⇓⇓

The minuscule form of 's' was 'ſ', called the long s, up to the fourteenth century or so, and the form 'S' was used then only as uppercase in the same manner that the forms 'G' and 'A' are only uppercase. With the introduction of printing, the modern form 's' began to be used at the end of words by some printers. Later, it was used everywhere in print and eventually spread to manuscript letters as well. For example, "sinfulness" would be rendered as "ſinfulneſſ" in all medieval hands, and later it was "ſinfulneſs" in some blackletter hands and in print. The modern spelling "sinfulness" did not become widespread in print until the beginning of the 19th century, largely to prevent confusion of 'ſ' with the lowercase 'f' in typefaces which had a very short horizontal stroke in their lowercase 'f'. The ligature of 'ſs' (or 'ſz') became the German Eszett, 'ß'.

It is commonly believed that it was the London printer John Bell (1745–1831) who popularized the modern "round s", in place of the elongated 'ſ', although exactly when he did this is unclear. In his multivolume series, The British Theatre, he began using the short form instead of the elongated letter circa 1785, not entirely at first but in later years more and more consistently. His edition of Shakespeare, in 1785, was advertised with the claim that he "ventured to depart from the common mode by rejecting the long 'ſ' in favor of the round one, as being less liable to error....."[3] In the field of more ephemeral publications, Bell began a London newspaper called The World, of which it has been said that a "vital change ... first made in The World, entitled No. 1 of that paper (for Monday, January 1, 1787) to be chronicled in any kalendar of typographical progress: the abolition of the long 'ſ'...."[4] Bell may have popularized it, but he did not invent it; in his letter of March 26, 1786 to Francis Childs, Benjamin Franklin wrote "the Round s .... begins to be the Mode, and in nice printing the Long 'ſ' is rejected entirely."

---

[3]  Stanley Morison, A Memoir of John Bell, 1745–1831 (1930, Cambridge Univ. Press) page 105; Daniel Berkeley Updike, Printing Types, Their History, Forms, and Use – a study in survivals (2nd. ed, 1951, Harvard Univ. Press) page 293.

[4]  Stanley Morison, A Memoir of John Bell, 1745–1831 (1930, Cambridge Univ. Press) page 118.

Gratiam ago. :yes:

Кецаль, ещё скажите, что вы не знали, что такая буква есть. :negozhe:

Цитата: cetsalcoatle от марта 28, 2015, 22:07
"ſ" - такую не знал. :yes: Сколько бы человек эрудирован не был - всё знать невзможно. :donno:

Цитата: Wolliger Mensch от марта 28, 2015, 22:57

Цитата: cetsalcoatle от марта 28, 2015, 22:07
"ſ" - такую не знал. :yes: Сколько бы человек эрудирован не был - всё знать невзможно. :donno:

Кецаль, вы и МФА не знаете? ;D

Цитата: cetsalcoatle от марта 30, 2015, 00:12

Цитата: Wolliger Mensch от марта 28, 2015, 22:57
Кецаль, вы и МФА не знаете? ;D

Весь - нет. :yes:

Цитата: Wolliger Mensch от марта 30, 2015, 00:28

Цитата: cetsalcoatle от марта 30, 2015, 00:12

Цитата: Wolliger Mensch от марта 28, 2015, 22:57
Кецаль, вы и МФА не знаете? ;D

Весь - нет. :yes:

Ну хоть английскую транскрипцию помните?

Цитата: cetsalcoatle от марта 30, 2015, 00:15
Это всё ерунда, вот falar.ru не работает - это да, печаль.. :'(

Цитата: cetsalcoatle от марта 30, 2015, 00:31
Помню, читаю, но редко ею записываю. ::)

Цитата: . от марта 30, 2015, 15:12

Цитата: cetsalcoatle от марта 30, 2015, 00:15
Это всё ерунда, вот falar.ru не работает - это да, печаль.. :'(

Работает.

Цитата: Wolliger Mensch от марта 30, 2015, 17:05

Цитата: cetsalcoatle от марта 30, 2015, 00:31
Помню, читаю, но редко ею записываю. ::)

Раз помните, запишите в транскрипции слово ship.

Цитата: cetsalcoatle от марта 31, 2015, 11:35

Цитата: . от марта 30, 2015, 15:12

Цитата: cetsalcoatle от марта 30, 2015, 00:15
Это всё ерунда, вот falar.ru не работает - это да, печаль.. :'(

Работает.

Нда? :what:

Цитата: . от апреля  1, 2015, 23:32

Цитата: cetsalcoatle от марта 31, 2015, 11:35

Цитата: . от марта 30, 2015, 15:12

Цитата: cetsalcoatle от марта 30, 2015, 00:15
Это всё ерунда, вот falar.ru не работает - это да, печаль.. :'(

Работает.

Нда? :what:

ЧЯДНТ?

Цитата: . от апреля  1, 2015, 23:39
Если вы живёте в Вечновстающейсколен, то сайт может быть тупо заблокирован Министерством Правды.

http://goo.gl/5OeWGO

Цитата: cetsalcoatle от марта 31, 2015, 11:36

Цитата: Wolliger Mensch от марта 30, 2015, 17:05

Цитата: cetsalcoatle от марта 30, 2015, 00:31
Помню, читаю, но редко ею записываю. ::)

Раз помните, запишите в транскрипции слово ship.

['ʃɪp] :what:

Цитата: cetsalcoatle от апреля  1, 2015, 23:40

Цитата: . от апреля  1, 2015, 23:32

Цитата: cetsalcoatle от марта 31, 2015, 11:35

Цитата: . от марта 30, 2015, 15:12

Цитата: cetsalcoatle от марта 30, 2015, 00:15
Это всё ерунда, вот falar.ru не работает - это да, печаль.. :'(

Работает.

Нда? :what:

ЧЯДНТ?

Это заглавная страница, в правом верхнем углу есть такая надпись оранжевыми буквами "форум португальского языка" - нужно на неё кликнуть мышкой. :yes:
Страница выдаст что-то вроде "cannot connect to database". :'(

Цитата: cetsalcoatle от апреля  1, 2015, 23:42

Цитата: . от апреля  1, 2015, 23:39
Если вы живёте в Вечновстающейсколен, то сайт может быть тупо заблокирован Министерством Правды.

http://goo.gl/5OeWGO

А португальский-то за что? :what:

Цитата: Wolliger Mensch от апреля  1, 2015, 23:42

Цитата: cetsalcoatle от марта 31, 2015, 11:36

Цитата: Wolliger Mensch от марта 30, 2015, 17:05

Цитата: cetsalcoatle от марта 30, 2015, 00:31
Помню, читаю, но редко ею записываю. ::)

Раз помните, запишите в транскрипции слово ship.

['ʃɪp] :what:

Ну и? Какую букву вы написали первой? ;D :fp: :yes:

Цитата: cetsalcoatle от апреля  2, 2015, 02:19
А что есть другая какая-то английская транскрипция? :what:

Цитата: Jeremy от апреля  2, 2015, 03:06
Но она, похоже, не такая, как кастильская.

Цитата: cetsalcoatle от марта 27, 2015, 01:00
символ похожий на "f" но без чёрточки

Цитата: Hellerick от марта 27, 2015, 02:41
А еще в старых испанских картах мне нравится, как предлог DE там объединяют в лигатуру типа Ð.

Цитата: Jeremy от апреля  2, 2015, 03:06

Цитата: cetsalcoatle от апреля  2, 2015, 02:19
А что есть другая какая-то английская транскрипция? :what:

Нету. А первой буквой написали длинную s, которую якобы не знали. Но она, похоже, не такая, как кастильская.

Цитата: Тайльнемер от апреля  2, 2015, 11:16

Цитата: cetsalcoatle от марта 27, 2015, 01:00
символ похожий на "f" но без чёрточки

В некоторых шрифтах там даже чёрточка есть, только слева.
(http://teilnehmer.somee.com/WpfTextImage/Make.ashx?src=W3N6PTEwMF1bZj1DYW1icmlhXcW_Zg) (http://teilnehmer.somee.com/WpfTextImage?src=W3N6PTEwMF1bZj1DYW1icmlhXcW_Zg)

Цитата: cetsalcoatle от апреля  2, 2015, 13:49а как этим пользоваться?