Лингвофорум

Цитата: Тайльнемер от ноября 20, 2010, 14:16

Цитата: iopq от апреля 11, 2010, 22:02
Нигде ни облака.
Следов нигде никаких.

Just try to convert these sentences into past: Нигде не было ни облака. Следов нигде никаких не было. Voila, 'ne's appear.

No shit, negation agreement, in MY Russian? It's more likely than you think!

Цитата: iopq от апреля 11, 2010, 22:02
Нигде ни облака.
Следов нигде никаких.

Just try to convert these sentences into past: Нигде не было ни облака. Следов нигде никаких не было. Voila, 'ne's appear.

Цитата: Rusiok от апреля 12, 2010, 00:04

Цитата: iopq от апреля 11, 2010, 22:02
Нигде ни облака. (Тург.);
Следов нигде никаких. (Гиляр.)
isn't the "нет" not necessary anyway?

Yes, it isn't. The word "нет" is clearly implied in these fragments. You can do without it. And you'll be understood.
But. These fragments are not clauses. They are actants only. They have not predicates. Compare with translation into English:

Nowhere clouds.
No trace of nowhere.

Russian has a "zero copula" in the present tense:
Я американец.
This is a full sentence in Russian, and you can't argue it's not by translating it into English:
*I American.
That's non-sense. You can't do that between languages.

Obviously the zero copula is used here. These are NOT fragments, they are full sentences. They start with a capital letter and end in a period. I'm sure the editor would have caught these mistakes if they were actually fragments.

Not to mention I found these examples in the link you gave me. These are correct examples of using the ni- words.

Цитата: iopq от апреля 11, 2010, 22:02
Нигде ни облака. (Тург.);
Следов нигде никаких. (Гиляр.)
isn't the "нет" not necessary anyway?

Yes, it isn't. The word "нет" is clearly implied in these fragments. You can do without it. And you'll be understood.
But. These fragments are not clauses. They are actants only. They have not predicates. Compare with translation into English:

Nowhere clouds.
No trace of nowhere.

Well, more examples of "ni" being used in the negative sense:

День был летний, душный и знойный. Нигде ни облака. (Тург.);
Следов нигде никаких. (Гиляр.)

Of course, you're going to claim there is an implied "нет" in these sentences but if you can't say "есть" to mean the opposite, isn't the "нет" not necessary anyway?

Цитата: iopq от апреля 11, 2010, 02:51
The sentence I wrote is a valid Russian sentence, does not contain the word "ne." In this sentence word "ni" is used as a negative. Writing it with "ne" is incorrect spelling and/or grammar.

Я специально посмотрел употребление "ni ni" с помощью поисковика. Одной из первых встретилась страничка http://rusgram.narod.ru/2661-2673.html .
At this entire page with lots of examples the "ni ... ni" with a personal form of the verb is not mentioned. I was particularly pleased with the coincidence of § 2663 with my intuitive sense of the rules of generation of Russian texts.

Цитата: Artemon от апреля 11, 2010, 02:31
Обычно "ни... ни" со сказуемым(и) не употребляется.

I agree with you, but please do not go to the Russian language. I specifically write in this section, when discussing an interesting topic for me to study English linguistic terms.

Цитата: Artemon от апреля 11, 2010, 02:31
Лично я не уверен, что можно сказать "он ни кушает, ни спит".

You can say anything you want. But I wonder: whether it will standard, in terms of rules of text generating.

Цитата: Rusiok от апреля 10, 2010, 17:01

Цитата: iopq от апреля 10, 2010, 13:03
"On ni kuszajet, ni spit" means "He neither eats nor sleeps"
"ni ... ni" is the Russian equivalent of "neither ... nor"
http://www.gramma.ru/RUS/?id=13.7

You see, //gramma.ru mentions no "ni ... ni" as equivalent to English "neither ... nor". One or two "ni" are used in the Agens to amplify  the negation. In particular, the Agens may be Infinitive of the verb. "On ni kushat', ni spat' ne mozhet (so he had a toothache). I find it difficult to make a sentence which contains Agens as a personal form of the verb.

That still doesn't address my point. The sentence I wrote is a valid Russian sentence, does not contain the word "ne." In this sentence word "ni" is used as a negative. Writing it with "ne" is incorrect spelling and/or grammar.

Цитата: Artemon от апреля 11, 2010, 02:31
Лично я не уверен, что можно сказать "он ни кушает, ни спит". Обычно "ни... ни" со сказуемым(и) не употребляется.

Я сам на интернете этот пример нашел

вот еще:  [Собака] ни плачет ни скулит, спит спокойно.

Лично я не уверен, что можно сказать "он ни кушает, ни спит". Обычно "ни... ни" со сказуемым(и) не употребляется.