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Цитата: mahead от апреля 17, 2024, 03:35𓃆 нерасшифрована чтоли? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Egyptian_hieroglyphs даёт лишь описание и порядковые номера, ни фонетической ни семантической стороны не указано.

https://x.com/i/grok доставляет:

Вопрос:
Do you know what 𓃆 means?

Ответ::
25 веб-страниц
The hieroglyph 𓃆 represents the Egyptian hieroglyphic sign known as "Gardiner M13," which typically symbolizes a "lotus flower" or "water lily." Here's more detailed information based on common interpretations:

    Symbolism: The lotus in Ancient Egyptian culture was a symbol of rebirth, life, and the sun, often associated with the sun god Ra, as the flower opens at dawn and closes at dusk, paralleling the sun's journey.
    Phonetic Use: In hieroglyphic writing, this sign can also serve phonetically, representing the sound "m" or being part of words where "m" is a component, although its primary use is as a logogram for the lotus itself.
    Cultural Significance: The lotus appears in various Egyptian artworks, myths, and religious practices. It's a common motif in tomb decorations, symbolizing resurrection and eternal life, given its ability to emerge clean and beautiful from the muddy waters each day.
    Unicode: This hieroglyph is encoded in Unicode as U+130F6, under the block for Egyptian Hieroglyphs.


When interpreting hieroglyphs, context is crucial. The meaning can vary depending on whether it's used pictorially, phonetically, or as a determinative (a sign used to clarify the meaning of the preceding signs without being pronounced).

For more in-depth study or if you encounter this symbol in a specific text or artwork, you'd need to consider the surrounding hieroglyphs for a full understanding of its use in that context.

Вопрос:
nope. it's     

D64
U+130C6

hand with palm down

Ответ::
Apologies for the confusion earlier. The hieroglyph you're referring to, 𓃆 (U+130C6), corresponds to "Gardiner D64" in the Gardiner's Sign List, which represents a "hand with palm down." Here's the correct interpretation:

    Symbolism: This hieroglyph typically symbolizes concepts related to giving, offering, or the action of placing something. It can also imply control or possession in certain contexts.
    Phonetic Use: While primarily used ideographically or as a determinative, in phonetic use, it can represent the sound "d" or "t," as many hand-related hieroglyphs do in Egyptian writing.
    Cultural Significance: In ancient Egyptian culture, hands were significant in many rituals and daily activities. The depiction of hands in various positions could denote different actions or states, like this one for "giving" or "placing."
    Usage in Texts: This hieroglyph might appear in texts describing offerings, gifts, or any act where something is handed over or placed down. It can also be part of names or words where the action of giving or placing is central to the meaning.


Understanding hieroglyphs involves looking at their context within a larger text or composition because they can function in multiple ways - ideographically, phonetically, or as determinatives. In this case, the "hand with palm down" might appear in scenes of offerings in tombs or temples, or it could be part of a word where the action of giving is described.

Thanks for the clarification, and I hope this provides a more accurate insight into the hieroglyph you were inquiring about.

Достоверность этого ответа тоже не 100%, но очень похоже на правду. Кто-нибудь знает источник где оно об этом узнало или контекст эту информацию подтверждающий?

(обратил внимание на "25 веб-страниц", но страница самообновилась, пришлось спросить снова)

Вопрос:
Do you know what 𓃆 means?

Ответ::
The symbol 𓃆 is an ancient Egyptian hieroglyph known as the "ankh." It represents the concept of life or eternal life. Often referred to as the "key of life," it's one of the most recognized symbols from ancient Egyptian culture and was frequently depicted in art, carried by gods to symbolize their life-giving powers, or held by pharaohs to denote their divine authority and connection to life after death.

If you need further context or a visual representation, I can generate an image of the ankh for you.

Вопрос:
nope. it's     

D64
U+130C6

hand with palm down

Ответ::
(четыре рисунка, на каждом рука деражащая анкх (типа I insist (или да ну твою 𓃆, ты лучше на 𓋹 посмотри (но это уже интерпретация чужого искусства, почти парейдолия))))

Вопрос:
Those ankhs are great, and hands are perfect, even the two with lost fingers are accurate, such shit happens with some human hands. But is that hyeroglyph ankh? I thought ankh is  𓋹, which looks like ☥. Why do LLM's have trouble with egyptian unicode? Why don't you use https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Egyptian_hieroglyphs  ?

Ответ::
25 веб-страниц
I appreciate the feedback on the images. I must clarify that the hieroglyph you're referring to with the code U+130C6, labeled as D64, is indeed different from the ankh symbol (𓋹, U+132F9). The symbol U+130C6 represents a "hand with palm down" and is part of the Egyptian hieroglyphs block in Unicode, specifically categorized under "Parts of the Human Body" in Gardiner's sign list.

Regarding the confusion with hieroglyphs:

    Hieroglyph Representation:
        The ankh (𓋹 or ☥ in different Unicode representations) is a distinct symbol meaning "life."
        The hand with palm down (𓃆, U+130C6) is a different hieroglyph used for various purposes, including as a determinative or phonetic complement in ancient Egyptian texts.
    LLM and Unicode Issues:
        Unicode support for Egyptian hieroglyphs can be challenging due to the complexity of the script. There are over 1,000 hieroglyphic characters in Unicode, and not all fonts or systems support displaying these characters correctly.
        Large Language Models (LLMs) might struggle with accurate representation or interpretation of these glyphs because:
            They rely on the quality and comprehensiveness of the data they've been trained on, which might not fully represent all nuances of hieroglyphic use or visual representation.
            The complexity of hieroglyphs, including their orientation, context-dependent meanings, and the fact that many have multiple interpretations, can lead to confusion or errors in text-based systems.
    Using Wikipedia's List of Egyptian Hieroglyphs:
        The Wikipedia page you mentioned, "List of Egyptian hieroglyphs," is an excellent reference for understanding the extensive set of hieroglyphs. However, I do use relevant web information when answering questions, which includes insights from such sources. The issue isn't about not using these resources but rather about how accurately the information is processed and represented in text or image form.


If you require more accurate visual representation or further clarification on specific hieroglyphs, I can generate images or provide more detailed explanations based on available information. However, always remember that the visual representation of hieroglyphs can vary slightly based on the font and rendering capabilities of different systems.

25 веб-страниц:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Unicode_chart_Egyptian_Hieroglyphs
http://xahlee.info/comp/unicode_egyptian_hieroglyph.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Egyptian_hieroglyphs
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Список_египетских_иероглифов
https://symbl.cc/en/unicode/blocks/egyptian-hieroglyphs/
https://symbl.cc/ru/unicode/blocks/egyptian-hieroglyphs/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_Hieroglyphs_(Unicode_block)
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Unicode/Egyptian_Hieroglyphs
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ankh
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Анх
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_triliteral_signs
https://emojicombos.com/ankh-symbol
https://codepoints.net/U%2B132F9
https://codepoints.net/U%2B132F9?lang=en
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ankh_wedja_seneb
https://www.cleopatraegypttours.com/travel-guide/important-ancient-egyptian-symbols/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Unicode_chart_Egyptian_Hieroglyphs
https://unicode-character-meanings.fandom.com/wiki/Egyptian_Hieroglyphs
https://codepoints.net/U%2B132F9?lang=es
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_Hieroglyphs_(Unicode_block)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transliteration_of_Ancient_Egyptian
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Транслитерация_египетских_текстов
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/517139969692074402/
https://www.unicode.org/charts/nameslist/n_13000.html
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/321233385905233164/

Вопрос:
Explain what it means and where you learnt it.

Ответ::
Meaning of 𓃆 (U+130C6, D64):
Meaning: This hieroglyph represents a "hand with palm down." In ancient Egyptian texts, hieroglyphs like this one have multiple uses:

    Phonetic Use: It can represent the sound 'd' or 't' in certain contexts, acting as a phonetic complement.
    Determinative: It can also act as a determinative to indicate that the action or object described in the text involves a hand or is done with a hand. For example, it might be used in words like "to give" or "to offer" where the action is performed with the hand.


Where I Learned It:

    Unicode Standard: The Unicode Consortium includes Egyptian hieroglyphs in its character set. Each hieroglyph has a unique code point, like U+130C6 for this hand symbol.
    Gardiner's Sign List: This is an influential classification system for Egyptian hieroglyphs, where this particular hand symbol is listed under D64. Sir Alan Gardiner's work has been foundational in Egyptology, and his sign list is widely used for categorizing hieroglyphs.
    Online and Academic Resources: Information from various academic sources, encyclopedias, and websites like Wikipedia provide detailed descriptions of hieroglyphs, their meanings, and uses. Websites often reference Gardiner's list or other Egyptological works to explain these symbols.
    Language and Text Corpora: My training includes vast amounts of text data from various sources, which would contain references to Egyptian hieroglyphs in educational content, books, articles, and discussions on Egyptology.


The understanding of this hieroglyph's use comes from both direct data on the hieroglyph itself and contextual learning from how it appears in ancient texts, translations, and modern interpretations. However, as with all ancient scripts, the exact use can vary with context, which is why Egyptology remains an active area of study and interpretation.

Вопрос: Can you give me some context? Some sentence with that hieroglyph and where that sentence is from.

Ответ::
Here's an example of a sentence where this hieroglyph might appear:

Sentence in Transliteration:

    di n.k 𓃆 ḥtp


Translation:

    "I give you peace."


Context:

    This example uses the hieroglyph 𓃆 (U+130C6) as a determinative after the verb di (to give) to emphasize the action of giving. The sentence is a hypothetical construct but reflects how hieroglyphs might be used in ancient Egyptian texts.


Source:

    While this specific sentence isn't from a known historical text, the structure is typical of those found in various inscriptions, particularly in religious or personal contexts where offerings or blessings are described. For instance, similar constructions can be found in:

        Temple Inscriptions: Texts in temples often include phrases where gods or kings are depicted giving blessings or offerings, like in the Temple of Edfu or Karnak.
        Tombs and Funerary Texts: In tombs, you might see such phrases in the context of the deceased giving or receiving offerings, like in the Pyramid Texts or the Book of the Dead.


Please note, hieroglyphic texts are highly contextual, and the exact interpretation can depend on the accompanying glyphs, the location of the text, and the era it was written. This example is meant to illustrate usage rather than quote directly from an existing source. If you're looking for exact phrases from specific ancient texts, that would require direct examination of those texts, often available through Egyptological publications or museum collections.

Вопрос:
Is that hieroglyphs in any text you know of?

Ответ::
The specific hieroglyph 𓃆 (U+130C6, hand with palm down) is indeed found in various ancient Egyptian texts. While I cannot point to a specific, well-known sentence from a famous text that uses this exact hieroglyph due to the vastness and complexity of hieroglyphic literature, here's some context about where you might encounter it:

    Tomb and Pyramid Texts: In the Pyramid Texts, which are among the oldest religious texts from ancient Egypt (circa 2400-2300 BCE), hieroglyphs like this are used. Although I can't cite a specific line, these texts often describe actions involving hands, like giving, offering, or blessing.
    Coffin Texts: These are a collection of ancient Egyptian funerary spells written on the inside of coffins. Hieroglyphs representing body parts, including hands, are commonly used to describe actions or as determinatives for verbs.
    Religious Inscriptions: In the temples, especially those from the New Kingdom period and later, you'll find inscriptions where deities or pharaohs are depicted in acts of giving or blessing, where this hieroglyph might appear to clarify the action.
    Daily Life Records: Administrative documents, personal letters, or votive offerings might use this hieroglyph when discussing actions involving hands, like giving wages, offerings, or in legal contracts where one person gives something to another.


Here's an example of how this hieroglyph could appear in a more general context:

Example from a Hypothetical Offering Text:

    m di.k 𓃆 ḥtp - "In giving you peace" - This might be seen in a context where a deity or a person is depicted giving peace or offerings to another.


Real Texts with Similar Use:

    The "Great Harris Papyrus," which documents the reign of Ramesses III, includes numerous instances of offerings and giving, where similar hand hieroglyphs would be used.
    In the "Book of the Dead," spells often involve giving or receiving, where determinatives like the hand with palm down could be used.


However, to find an exact match in a specific known text would require a thorough search through Egyptological databases or primary sources, which are extensive and continuously studied by scholars. If you have access to hieroglyphic text collections or Egyptological research tools, you might find this hieroglyph in contexts similar to those described.

𓃆 нерасшифрована чтоли? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Egyptian_hieroglyphs даёт лишь описание и порядковые номера, ни фонетической ни семантической стороны не указано.
Если кто умеет читать увидит её где, проверьте пожалуйста гипотезу, что это семантически "давай" или фонетически g (от г до ж)
Гипотеза родилась от того как 𓃆 похожа на g не меньше, чем 𓂧 похожа на d не только фонетически, но и графически, так же как и 𓃀 на b (и противопоставляются 𓂧 и 𓃀 как d и b, Ⰴ и Ⰲ) и это ещё одно странное наблюдение скрестилось с тем, что g в английском г, а в русском д, и встречается в парах go/иgи и give/gавай
И если кто знает этот символ, пожалуйста расскажите как оно на самом деле.

Эллинистический Египет и доэллинистический Египет.

Последнее время много слушал и смотрел про Древний Египет. У некоторых египетских царей и цариц были имена, заканчивающиеся слогом -ра: Менкаура, Неферкара, Нефрура, этот слог так или иначе связан с древнеегипетским божеством Ра. В какой-то момент мне подумалось: у египтян ведь была и и царица Клеопатра VII из династии Птолемеев, а также шесть её предшественниц, неужели они тоже от Ра? Оказалось, что нет: Κλεοπάτρα в переводе с греческого означает "славная отцом".

En elenica "͵αρ" sinifia 1100, do "͵α" sinifia un mil.

Греческое «͵αρ» означает 1100, где «͵α» означает тысячу.

Цитата: Hellerick от марта 12, 2022, 06:19
Греческая система работала аналогично -- задолго до знакомства с индийской системой.

Тоже тысячи передавали как единицы?
Тогда наверняка и у нас такая техника с тех же времён. Сами системы-то вообще одинаковые (вплоть до совпадения значений для всех цифр вплоть до 80, дальше из-за пропуска צ начинается расхождение на единицу).

Цитата: mnashe от марта 11, 2022, 16:02
Может, только после распространения индийской позиционной системы.

La sistem elenica if opera a la mesma modo -- longa tempo ante conse la sistem barati.

Греческая система работала аналогично -- задолго до знакомства с индийской системой.

Цитата: Gangleri от марта  9, 2022, 11:16
Я немного не понял вашего вопроса.
Если вы о том, что для каждого натурального числа у египтян был отдельный иероглиф, то нет, разумеется, это не так. У них была десятичная система счета, и они отдельно записывали единицы, десятки, сотни и тысячи.
Если вопрос в том, могли ли египтяне записать действительно большое число в условиях отсутствия настоящей позиционной системы записи чисел, то тут вопрос остается открытым. Теоретически, им ничего не мешало тысячу раз вырезать иероглиф "тысяча" для миллиона (для народа, построившего пирамиды, это не великая проблема), однако на практике им с такими числами работать не приходилось. Я не могу сходу припомнить упоминание чего-то, что превышало бы десяток тысяч единиц. Собственно, самым большим разрядом у них была тысяча, и для нее был отдельный иероглиф; многие указывают на наличие иероглифов для 100 тысяч и миллиона, но на самом деле это значит "очень много", "тьма-тьмущая", а не конкретное число. Собственно, если б кто из египтян считал песок, как Иосиф, как раз именно этими иероглифами он бы и записал свой результат.

Спасибо!
Думаю, предполагалось не наличие отдельного иероглифа для каждого числа, а что-то типа еврейской-греческой-кириллической системы (где максимальная цифра — несколько сотен), или римской (где, емнип, тысяча). Так что существенно бо́льшие числа приходилось записывать уже многократным повторением самой большой доступной цифры, что сильно неудобно.
В иврите сейчас есть возможность записать тысячи «позиционно»: пишут тысячи теми же цифрами, что и единицы, но отделяют апострофом. Вот так: ה׳ תשפ״ב = 5782, то есть 5' 400+300+80+2 (текущий год). Но я не знаю, когда такая запись появилась. Может, только после распространения индийской позиционной системы. А до этого, возможно, писали только словесным описанием: «год 782 шестого тысячелетия» (такая запись нередка в книгах; а в обиходе тысячи в номере года вообще опускают).

Жаль. Может гугл озвучит.

Цитата: Karakurt от февраля 20, 2022, 09:44
Если ехать в Египет, сколько времени займет изучения египетского языка, особенно иероглифов? Надо же понимать что написано.

Чтобы понимать, что написано, надо знать язык. Простое знание иероглифики (которая учится довольно быстро) не поможет вам общаться с друзьями-древними египтянами