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Автор GaLL
- октября 10, 2012, 08:30В др.-англ. under совпали *h1(e)n-ter "внутри, между" и *ndh-er- "ниже, под". В understand первое значение.
Автор Anixx
- октября 10, 2012, 01:15Цитироватьfrom PIE *nter- "between, among"
Не было такого значения в ПИЕ.
Не надо путать h₁en-ter "внутри" и ndʰ-er-i "внизу".
Автор francisrossi
- октября 10, 2012, 00:29understand (v.)
O.E. understandan "comprehend, grasp the idea of," probably lit. "stand in the midst of," from under + standan "to stand" (see stand). If this is the meaning, the under is not the usual word meaning "beneath," but from O.E. under, from PIE *nter- "between, among" (cf. Skt. antar "among, between," L. inter "between, among," Gk. entera "intestines;" see inter-).
That is the suggestion in Barnhart, but other sources regard the "among, between, before, in the presence of" sense of Old English prefix and preposition under as other meanings of the same word. "Among" seems to be the sense in many Old English compounds that resemble understand, e.g. underniman "to receive," undersecan "to investigate," underginnan "to begin." It also seems to be the sense still in expressions such as under such circumstances.
Perhaps the ultimate sense is "be close to," cf. Gk. epistamai "I know how, I know," lit. "I stand upon." Similar formations are found in O.Fris. (understonda), M.Dan. (understande), while other Germanic languages use compounds meaning "stand before" (cf. Ger. verstehen, represented in Old English by forstanden). For this concept, most Indo-European languages use figurative extensions of compounds that lit. mean "put together," or "separate," or "take, grasp" (see comprehend) [ср. русское "понимать" - прим.]. O.E. oferstandan, M.E. overstonden, lit. "over-stand" seem to have been used only in literal senses.
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=understand&searchmode=none
O.E. understandan "comprehend, grasp the idea of," probably lit. "stand in the midst of," from under + standan "to stand" (see stand). If this is the meaning, the under is not the usual word meaning "beneath," but from O.E. under, from PIE *nter- "between, among" (cf. Skt. antar "among, between," L. inter "between, among," Gk. entera "intestines;" see inter-).
That is the suggestion in Barnhart, but other sources regard the "among, between, before, in the presence of" sense of Old English prefix and preposition under as other meanings of the same word. "Among" seems to be the sense in many Old English compounds that resemble understand, e.g. underniman "to receive," undersecan "to investigate," underginnan "to begin." It also seems to be the sense still in expressions such as under such circumstances.
Perhaps the ultimate sense is "be close to," cf. Gk. epistamai "I know how, I know," lit. "I stand upon." Similar formations are found in O.Fris. (understonda), M.Dan. (understande), while other Germanic languages use compounds meaning "stand before" (cf. Ger. verstehen, represented in Old English by forstanden). For this concept, most Indo-European languages use figurative extensions of compounds that lit. mean "put together," or "separate," or "take, grasp" (see comprehend) [ср. русское "понимать" - прим.]. O.E. oferstandan, M.E. overstonden, lit. "over-stand" seem to have been used only in literal senses.
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=understand&searchmode=none
Автор Anixx
- октября 9, 2012, 21:17Цитата: Lei Ming Xia (reloaded) от мая 29, 2007, 05:33Неправда. under - из ПИЕ ndher "низ"
under = между
ver = перед
(этимологически)
Автор Lei Ming Xia (reloaded)
- мая 31, 2007, 10:38для полноты картины:
Grammatisch-kritisches Wörterbuch der hochdeutschen Mundart (1774-1786), Ausgabe von 1811:
http://mdz.bib-bvb.de/digbib/lexika/adelung
http://mdz.bib-bvb.de/digbib/lexika/adelung/images/ade4/@raster?filename=ade40579.gif
если что непонятно по-немецки, спрашивайте
Grammatisch-kritisches Wörterbuch der hochdeutschen Mundart (1774-1786), Ausgabe von 1811:
http://mdz.bib-bvb.de/digbib/lexika/adelung
ЦитироватьIn der letzten Hauptbedeutung ist dieses Wort schon sehr alt, indem es schon bey dem alten Übersetzer Isidors firstan, bey dem Ottfried (< дорогая Enfini, ау!!!) firstuan und irstuan, bey dem Willeram verstan lautet; Nieders. verstaan, Schwed. förstä. Die Figur ist freylich dunkel, allein sie läßt sich doch errathen. Die Angelsachsen gebrauchten dafür understan, und noch die heutigen Engländer understand. Es scheinet, daß in, unter und ver, welche alle in dieser Bedeutung mit dem Zeitworte stehen verbunden worden, so viel als eine Gegenwart, vor, bedeutet haben, so daß es eigentlich vor etwas stehen, einer Sache gegenwärtig seyn, bedeutet haben würde; welches noch dadurch bestätiget wird, daß Ottfried und andere dieses Wort auch für wahrnehmen, merken, empfinden, gebrauchen. Das Griechische επισαμαι (επισταμαι ? - L.M.X.), ich weiß, verstehe, gründet sich eben auf dieselbe Figur, obgleich solches gemeiniglich von ίσαμαι (ίσταμαι ? - L.M.X.) abgeleitet wird; vielleicht nur, weil man nichts bessers wußte, und bloß der Ähnlichkeit des Klanges nachging. In dem Lat. intelligere, für interligere, scheint eine ähnliche Figur zu herrschen, obgleich die Bedeutung des ligere hier noch dunkel ist. Übrigens bedeutet verstehen im Niederdeutschen auch überstehen, aushalten. Eine Krankheit verstehen, überstehen; einen guten Trunk verstehen, vertragen können.
http://mdz.bib-bvb.de/digbib/lexika/adelung/images/ade4/@raster?filename=ade40579.gif
если что непонятно по-немецки, спрашивайте
Автор Lei Ming Xia (reloaded)
- мая 29, 2007, 06:37в общем, учёные спорят.. 
Автор Lei Ming Xia (reloaded)
- мая 29, 2007, 06:05этимологически:
under = между (ср. нем. "unter uns" = "между нами")
ver = перед
насколько я знаю, в с.в.н. было 2 глагола: "firstantan" и "in(t)stantan" ("untarstantan" имело другой смысл)
under = между (ср. нем. "unter uns" = "между нами")
ver = перед
ЦитироватьTwo types of understanding are implicated here: understanding through direct experience and engagement ('standing amongst' – understandan) and understanding through observation ('standing in front of, or on top of - verstehen).
насколько я знаю, в с.в.н. было 2 глагола: "firstantan" и "in(t)stantan" ("untarstantan" имело другой смысл)
Автор Lei Ming Xia (reloaded)
- мая 29, 2007, 05:33ЦитироватьO.E. understandan "comprehend, grasp the idea of," probably lit. "stand in the midst of," from under + standan "to stand" (see stand). If this is the meaning, the under is not the usual word meaning "beneath," but from O.E. under, from PIE *nter- "between, among" (cf. Skt. antar "among, between," L. inter "between, among," Gk. entera "intestines;" see inter-). But the exact notion is unclear. Perhaps the ult. sense is "be close to," cf. Gk. epistamai "I know how, I know," lit. "I stand upon." Similar formations are found in O.Fris. (understonda), M.Dan. (understande), while other Gmc. languages use compounds meaning "stand before" (cf. Ger. verstehen, represented in O.E. by forstanden ). For this concept, most I.E. languages use fig. extensions of compounds that lit. mean "put together," or "separate," or "take, grasp."under = между
ver = перед
(этимологически)
Автор GayleSaver
- апреля 19, 2007, 05:16OED
[OE. understondan,...With a different prefix, the same use of stand appears in OE. forstandan, OS. farstandan, OHG. far-, firstantan (firstân), and MHG. verstân, -stên (G. verstehen), MDu. verstaen (Du. -staan).
[OE. understondan,...With a different prefix, the same use of stand appears in OE. forstandan, OS. farstandan, OHG. far-, firstantan (firstân), and MHG. verstân, -stên (G. verstehen), MDu. verstaen (Du. -staan).
Автор znatok
- февраля 24, 2007, 00:19подставлять и доставлять (приставлять) ?