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Автор iopq
- июня 26, 2007, 19:05so long
parting salutation, 1860, of unknown origin, perhaps from a Ger. idiom (cf. Ger. parting salutation adieu so lange, the full sense of which probably is something like "farewell, whilst (we're apart)"), perhaps from Heb. shalom (via Yiddish sholom). Some have noted a similarity to Scand. leave-taking phrases, cf. Norw. Adjø så lenge, Farvel så lenge, Mor'n så lenge, lit. "bye so long, farewell so long, morning so long;" and Swed. Hej så länge "good-bye for now," with så länge "for now" attested since 1850 according to Swed. sources. Most etymology sources seem to lean toward the Ger. origin. Earlier guesses that it was a sailors' corruption of a South Pacific form of Arabic salaam are not now regarded as convincing. "Dictionary of American Slang" also adds to the list of candidates Ir. slan "health," said to be used as a toast and a salutation. The phrase seems to have turned up simultaneously in Amer.Eng., Britain, and perhaps Canada, originally among lower classes. First attested use is in title and text of the last poem in Whitman's "Leaves of Grass" in the 1860 edition.
An unknown sphere, more real than I dream'd, more direct, darts awakening rays about me—So long!
Remember my words—I may again return,
I love you—I depart from materials;
I am as one disembodied, triumphant, dead.
Whitman's friend and fan William Sloane Kennedy, wrote in 1923:
"The salutation of parting—'So long!'—was, I believe, until recent years, unintelligible to the majority of persons in America, especially in the interior, and to members of the middle and professional classes. I had never heard of it until I read it in Leaves of Grass, but since then have quite often heard it used by the laboring class and other classes in New England cities. Walt wrote to me, defining 'so long' thus: 'A salutation of departure, greatly used among sailors, sports, & prostitutes—the sense of it is 'Till we meet again,'— conveying an inference that somehow they will doubtless so meet, sooner or later." ... It is evidently about equivalent to our 'See you later.' The phrase is reported as used by farm laborers near Banff, Scotland. In Canada it is frequently heard; 'and its use is not entirely confined to the vulgar.' It is in common use among the working classes of Liverpool and among sailors at Newcastle-upon-Tyne, and in Dorsetshire. ... The London Globe suggests that the expression is derived from the Norwegian 'Saa laenge,' a common form of 'farewell,' au revoir. If so, the phrase was picked up from the Norwegians in America, where 'So long' first was heard. The expression is now (1923) often used by the literary and artistic classes."
parting salutation, 1860, of unknown origin, perhaps from a Ger. idiom (cf. Ger. parting salutation adieu so lange, the full sense of which probably is something like "farewell, whilst (we're apart)"), perhaps from Heb. shalom (via Yiddish sholom). Some have noted a similarity to Scand. leave-taking phrases, cf. Norw. Adjø så lenge, Farvel så lenge, Mor'n så lenge, lit. "bye so long, farewell so long, morning so long;" and Swed. Hej så länge "good-bye for now," with så länge "for now" attested since 1850 according to Swed. sources. Most etymology sources seem to lean toward the Ger. origin. Earlier guesses that it was a sailors' corruption of a South Pacific form of Arabic salaam are not now regarded as convincing. "Dictionary of American Slang" also adds to the list of candidates Ir. slan "health," said to be used as a toast and a salutation. The phrase seems to have turned up simultaneously in Amer.Eng., Britain, and perhaps Canada, originally among lower classes. First attested use is in title and text of the last poem in Whitman's "Leaves of Grass" in the 1860 edition.
An unknown sphere, more real than I dream'd, more direct, darts awakening rays about me—So long!
Remember my words—I may again return,
I love you—I depart from materials;
I am as one disembodied, triumphant, dead.
Whitman's friend and fan William Sloane Kennedy, wrote in 1923:
"The salutation of parting—'So long!'—was, I believe, until recent years, unintelligible to the majority of persons in America, especially in the interior, and to members of the middle and professional classes. I had never heard of it until I read it in Leaves of Grass, but since then have quite often heard it used by the laboring class and other classes in New England cities. Walt wrote to me, defining 'so long' thus: 'A salutation of departure, greatly used among sailors, sports, & prostitutes—the sense of it is 'Till we meet again,'— conveying an inference that somehow they will doubtless so meet, sooner or later." ... It is evidently about equivalent to our 'See you later.' The phrase is reported as used by farm laborers near Banff, Scotland. In Canada it is frequently heard; 'and its use is not entirely confined to the vulgar.' It is in common use among the working classes of Liverpool and among sailors at Newcastle-upon-Tyne, and in Dorsetshire. ... The London Globe suggests that the expression is derived from the Norwegian 'Saa laenge,' a common form of 'farewell,' au revoir. If so, the phrase was picked up from the Norwegians in America, where 'So long' first was heard. The expression is now (1923) often used by the literary and artistic classes."
Автор RostislaV
- июня 22, 2007, 22:11Цитата: White_tiger от марта 15, 2005, 00:56Цитата: Lei Ming Xiajian4 = джьен, в четвёртом тонеВ соответствии с официально принятой азбукой Поладия,иероглиф "видеться" в русской транскрипции будет писаться "цзянь".Но,естесственно ,по-китайски звучание разительно отличается
В Китае 9 ханьских языков! - конечно отличается!
Автор RostislaV
- июня 22, 2007, 22:10Цитата: RawonaM от февраля 12, 2005, 01:43Цитата: reziaВот еще английское "so long" (пока) - искажение арабского salaamPSM... Прикольно, если это на самом деле так.
(E.Partridge).
Ирония Судьбы ...
8)Автор tmadi
- июня 22, 2007, 19:04По сабжу. Более вежливо будет звучать 久違 (久违) jiǔwéi. Да и для русскоязычного меньше риска сломать язык - "цзювэй" так же легко произнести русскому как и понять китайцу.
Можно и повторить: 久違久違, от этого слова будут звучать только искренней.
Можно и повторить: 久違久違, от этого слова будут звучать только искренней.
Автор White_tiger
- марта 15, 2005, 00:56Цитата: Lei Ming Xiajian4 = джьен, в четвёртом тонеВ соответствии с официально принятой азбукой Поладия,иероглиф "видеться" в русской транскрипции будет писаться "цзянь".Но,естесственно ,по-китайски звучание разительно отличается
Автор RawonaM
- февраля 12, 2005, 21:56Цитата: Станислав СекиринВ силезском диалекте немецкого есть такое слово sela, означает приблизительно "всё, договорились" или "разговор окончен". Его из иврита выводят.Странно.
Попробую разузнать, может я просто не узна́ю из-за каких-то фонетических изменений.Автор Станислав Секирин
- февраля 12, 2005, 21:44Цитата: RawonaMВ силезском диалекте немецкого есть такое слово sela, означает приблизительно "всё, договорились" или "разговор окончен". Его из иврита выводят.Цитата: reziaэто дериват от иврита: Selah (God be with you).Не знаю такого слова с таким смыслом.
В обычном недиалектном немецком я это слово встречал только в подстрочниках с hэбрэиш. И притом с несколько другим значением, более торжественным...
"Über Dein Volk komme Dein Segen! Selah."
Автор RawonaM
- февраля 12, 2005, 20:40Цитата: reziaэто дериват от иврита: Selah (God be with you).Не знаю такого слова с таким смыслом.
Автор Rezia
- февраля 12, 2005, 14:05Цитата: RawonaMНу OED предлагает от немецкого so lange!Цитата: reziaВот еще английское "so long" (пока) - искажение арабского salaamPSM... Прикольно, если это на самом деле так.
(E.Partridge).
Партридж [Dict of Slang and Unconventional Enlish] пишет, что скоре это искажение salaam, но есть еще версии, что это дериват от иврита: Selah (God be with you).
Автор RawonaM
- февраля 12, 2005, 01:43Цитата: reziaВот еще английское "so long" (пока) - искажение арабского salaamPSM... Прикольно, если это на самом деле так.
(E.Partridge).
