Лингвофорум

Well, this makes perfect sense, I guess. kht and kt should sound quite similarly to their ears. The same goes for the pair or-yor. So let's say, if we spell the Ukrainian name let it be Shakhtar and the Russian one makes it into Shakhtor.

Well, I actually went and asked one of them
The Russian he would spell as 'Shaktor', the Ukrainian as 'Shaktar'.
I said well how about the 'h' after the 'k'. He said it wouldn't make much difference pronunciation-wise
I'd still leave the 'h' in there, though

Цитата: "Radley" от
I've got a few native English speakers nearby who can pull off a pretty decent pronunciation of either.  They've lived in Ukraine for several years already, though.

Might be of interest to ask them to try and spell the damned word as they'd deem it right. That'd definitely settle the argument

Цитата: "Vertaler" от
It can be easily explained with linguistical arguments, so it has the right to existence

You can explain whatever you wish in your 'linguistical arguments' (or in any scientific 'arguments', for that matter). It still will not change the fact that 'Shakhter' is farther from the original - Russian or Ukrainian - than 'Shakhtar' or 'Shakhtyor'. 'Linguistical arguments' cannot substitute common sense, for god's sake.

Цитата: "Pere" от
Neither do Shakhtyor nor Shakhtar, in case we mean to make native English speakers say or hear the name in question like we do. Just ask an American to pronounce any of those, you'll see 

I've got a few native English speakers nearby who can pull off a pretty decent pronunciation of either.  They've lived in Ukraine for several years already, though. For an unprepared one, of course, it will be a torture 

Цитата: "Смайлик" от
"Shakhtar vs. Shakhtyor issue" not "Shakhtar vs. Shakhter"

Ooops, sorry, I misread, my fault

Цитата: Radley от сентября 14, 2006, 09:12

Цитата: "Смайлик" от
he "Shakhtar vs. Shakhtyor" issue is the same one as "Kiev vs. Kyiv"

No it's not.
'Shakhter' does not reflect the Russian or the Ukrainian pronunciation of the word. There is no such football team in Ukraine as 'Shakhter'.
And if someone wants to hate something, well, that's his personal problem.

That's why I said "Shakhtar vs. Shakhtyor issue" not "Shakhtar vs. Shakhter". 

Цитата: Radley от сентября 14, 2006, 09:20
Unless of course you want to argue that there is no need to phonetically transliterate Ukrainian/Russian names. But that would defeat the whole objective of transliteration, wouldn't it?

Why?

However, I don't like to dispute anything. That's why I rarely write in this forum. That was just my opinion, and let it be so. It can be easily explained with linguistical arguments, so it has the right to existence.

Thanx everybody

Цитата: "Radley" от
Shakhter' does not reflect the Russian or the Ukrainian pronunciation of the word.

Neither do Shakhtyor nor Shakhtar, in case we mean to make native English speakers say or hear the name in question like we do. Just ask an American to pronounce any of those, you'll see

So the dispute sounds sorts of puristic to me.

All said, anyhow let me vote for 'Shakhtar'.

Unless of course you want to argue that there is no need to phonetically transliterate Ukrainian/Russian names. But that would defeat the whole objective of transliteration, wouldn't it?