Language teaching

[ginkgo]

I doubt any Slavic language speaker can learn proper English pronunciation, be it American, or English, or Australian, without growing up in that country.

I'd say every person with a more or less good ear, a good imitation ability, a high motivation, a lot of patience and a good teacher can learn the proper pronunciation of any language. The problem is that the combination of all these factors is rather rare.

[iopq]

I doubt any Slavic language speaker can learn proper English pronunciation, be it American, or English, or Australian, without growing up in that country.

I'd say every person with a more or less good ear, a good imitation ability, a high motivation, a lot of patience and a good teacher can learn the proper pronunciation of any language. The problem is that the combination of all these factors is rather rare.

The problem is that you can't imitate all the allophones with the correct amount of aspiration or labialization or voicing in every case.

For the word spit, the p is not affricated, in pit it is affricated. In right, r is labialized, but in criteria it is not.

Often, d is devoiced in English... but not aspirated

it's too hard to first study all of these distinctions and then apply all of them in every single case IN REAL TIME

[ginkgo]

The problem is that you can't imitate all the allophones with the correct amount of aspiration or labialization or voicing in every case.

Why do you think so? You can. You just need to have a good ear, a good imitation ability, etc., see above.

For the word spit, the p is not affricated, in pit it is affricated. In right, r is labialized, but in criteria it is not.
Often, d is devoiced in English... but not aspirated

It's not as difficult as it seems, there are lots of such things in German, too, or in other European languages. Some african click sounds must be much harder to master I imagine
Btw, what do you mean by the affricated p in pit? The aspiration?

it's too hard to first study all of these distinctions and then apply all of them in every single case IN REAL TIME

Nobody says it's easy. But it's possible (and it's fun!!), as well as it's possible to study all the phonetical nuances of German or Spanish or any other language well enough to be able to apply them correctly, to distinguish between regional accents, etc. Even Slavic language speakers can do that 

[iopq]

The problem is that you can't imitate all the allophones with the correct amount of aspiration or labialization or voicing in every case.

Why do you think so? You can. You just need to have a good ear, a good imitation ability, etc., see above.

For the word spit, the p is not affricated, in pit it is affricated. In right, r is labialized, but in criteria it is not.
Often, d is devoiced in English... but not aspirated

It's not as difficult as it seems, there are lots of such things in German, too, or in other European languages. Some african click sounds must be much harder to master I imagine
Btw, what do you mean by the affricated p in pit? The aspiration?

it's too hard to first study all of these distinctions and then apply all of them in every single case IN REAL TIME

Nobody says it's easy. But it's possible (and it's fun!!), as well as it's possible to study all the phonetical nuances of German or Spanish or any other language well enough to be able to apply them correctly, to distinguish between regional accents, etc. Even Slavic language speakers can do that 

I meant to say p in pit is aspirated. I will read up on German phonology and I will post a file of me reading some things in German. I've never studied German except for the phonology. People will tell me if my pronunciation is good or not! I think I have a very good ear and ability to imitate because I've been listening and imitating different language songs, like Romanian, Japanese, German and Norwegian.
I think if anyone can do it, it would be me.

[ginkgo]

An interesting idea, jorq, I'm looking forward to your file

[Драгана]

Of cause a prononsatioo shoudn't be ignored.But it's not the most important.It.s important,but you must not speak like native speakers if you don't live in that country.When you'll live there then you'll get it.

[sknente]

s/must not/don't have to

you must not = ты обязан этого не делать
you don't have to = ты не должен этого делать

[Драгана]

Ну да

[Rezia]

I remember as an Irish woman told me: "I have no tools!"

Only after a long investigation I realized that she meant "towels"!

This is English. It sounds very strange to a Slavonic ear. That's where all problems start from.

The same thing is about Russian English for a native speaker of English. One can say "moron" and the other will get it as "moral" (which is a true example from real life).

[Чайник777]

The same thing is about Russian English for a native speaker of English. One can say "moron" and the other will get it as "moral" (which is a true example from real life).

So exactly how you're supposed to pronounce it so that he understands it?

[iopq]

The same thing is about Russian English for a native speaker of English. One can say "moron" and the other will get it as "moral" (which is a true example from real life).

So exactly how you're supposed to pronounce it so that he understands it?

With correct vowel reduction, of course. None of that akanye shit!

[Чайник777]

With correct vowel reduction, of course. None of that akanye shit!

It's way too hard for me. I'd rather stick to my Russian accent with kartavost' 

[Маркоман]

With correct vowel reduction, of course. None of that akanye shit!

The poststressed vowels are reduced to shwa in Russian.

[iopq]

With correct vowel reduction, of course. None of that akanye shit!

The poststressed vowels are reduced to shwa in Russian.

the quality and the conditions of vowel reduction are not the same in English and in Russian

[Маркоман]

the quality and the conditions of vowel reduction are not the same in English and in Russian

It reffers to initial or prestressed vowels, but what's the difference between shwa in Russian and shwa in English?

[iopq]

the quality and the conditions of vowel reduction are not the same in English and in Russian

It reffers to initial or prestressed vowels, but what's the difference between shwa in Russian and shwa in English?

because in roses it's not a schwa, it's a "schwi" - [ɨ]
Rosa's has a schwa

also English has lots of unstressed diphthongs and all kinds of things that would make a Russian speaker's tongue fall off and run away

[Маркоман]

because in roses it's not a schwa, it's a "schwi" - [ɨ]
Rosa's has a schwa

Can you really hear such a difference?

also English has lots of unstressed diphthongs and all kinds of things that would make a Russian speaker's tongue fall off and run away

The same is vice versa, and only iopq can speak both languages effortlessly

[iopq]

because in roses it's not a schwa, it's a "schwi" - [ɨ]
Rosa's has a schwa

Can you really hear such a difference?

also English has lots of unstressed diphthongs and all kinds of things that would make a Russian speaker's tongue fall off and run away

The same is vice versa, and only iopq can speak both languages effortlessly

you would be able to tell roses from Rosa's, but not vice versa because the pronunciation with schwa is allowed for roses, but schwi is not allowed for Rosa's

also, who says I speak Russian effortlessly? half of the words coming out of my mouth are in English
(the rest are Ukrainisms like жменя)

[Маркоман]

you would be able to tell roses from Rosa's, but not vice versa because the pronunciation with schwa is allowed for roses, but schwi is not allowed for Rosa's

I see. I think vowel reduction is not the most difficult aspect of English pronunciation for Russians which can cause misunderstanding. English stressed vowels give much harder time.

[iopq]

you would be able to tell roses from Rosa's, but not vice versa because the pronunciation with schwa is allowed for roses, but schwi is not allowed for Rosa's

I see. I think vowel reduction is not the most difficult aspect of English pronunciation for Russians which can cause misunderstanding. English stressed vowels give much harder time.

except when Russian speakers say things like [каталак] instead of catalog

[Chocolate]

English stressed vowels give much harder time.

The length of English vowels is one of the hardest thing to hear for a native speaker of Russian.

[Маркоман]

except when Russian speakers say things like [каталак] instead of catalog

They cannot say such things. If they put the stress on the first syllable, they will reduce the last two to shcwa. "a" is pronounced in Russian only in  the stressed, the first prestressed and the inintial position.

[Маркоман]

The length of English vowels is one of the hardest thing to hear for a native speaker of Russian.

It is non-phonemic.

[iopq]

except when Russian speakers say things like [каталак] instead of catalog

They cannot say such things. If they put the stress on the first syllable, they will reduce the last two to shcwa. "a" is pronounced in Russian only in  the stressed, the first prestressed and the inintial position.

that's what I mean, catalog has an "unstressed" or at least "tertiary-stressed" or whatever [ɔ] in the last syllable while Russian has a qualitative reduction