Звонкие согласные в конце слова

[louise]

Заметила при просмотре фильмов - там omg произносят  "о май гат"
спросила других - не послышалось ли мне - нет, на конце звонкая д звучит как т. Хотя вроде это такое четкое правило, что звонкие на конце слов не оглушаются в английском?
Почему так?

[Евгений]

В английском главнее не участие голоса, а напряжённость-ненапряжённость (tense-lax). На конце слов может звучать и фонетически глухой, но будучи ненапряжённым он остаётся фонологически «lax», нейтрализации нет.

[Drundia]

Ох уж эти уши испорченные русской фонологией... Как это я люблю просить, а не дадите послушать конкретно где слышится тэканье?

[Iskandar]

Ох уж эти уши испорченные русской фонологией...

Да русские вообще в грехопадении Адама виноваты... (А Адам был.. сами знаете, гуцулом)

В английском главнее не участие голоса, а напряжённость-ненапряжённость (tense-lax). На конце слов может звучать и фонетически глухой, но будучи ненапряжённым он остаётся фонологически «lax», нейтрализации нет.

В таджикском точно так же.

[Drundia]

Да русские вообще в грехопадении Адама виноваты... (А Адам был.. сами знаете, гуцулом)

Ну зачем же сразу так?

[Евгений]

В таджикском точно так же.

Так во всех нормальных языках

[Чайник777]

В таджикском точно так же.

Так во всех нормальных языках

А в украинском как? Там же нету оглушения?

[Drundia]

Так во всех нормальных языках

Ваше определение нормального языка.

[Евгений]

Ваше определение нормального языка.

Нормальный язык — германский язык.

[Andrei N]

Тогда, прошу, объясните разницу английских fade-fate, race-raise... А то не один год изучал английский, а до таких тонкостий не доходил.

[Drundia]

Тогда, прошу, объясните разницу английских fade-fate, race-raise... А то не один год изучал английский, а до таких тонкостий не доходил.

А если послушать?

[Aleksey]

fade-fate, race-raise

Не понимаю, почему это здесь, явно же произношение разделяется.

[Andrei N]

Не понимаю, почему это здесь, явно же произношение разделяется.

Чем отличается кроме звонкости?

[Aleksey]

Больше ничем.

[Wulfila]

Чем отличается кроме звонкости?

глухие - сильные (напряжённые)
p t k - с "придыханием"..

[Andrei N]

p t k - с "придыханием"..

Тогда объясните, какое придыхание в "rope" и чем оно отличается от "robe".

[Чайник777]

В вики можно почитать: (wiki/en) Fortis_and_lenis
Там про английский написано. Придыхание - это в анлауте.

[Valerius]

1) оглушения согласных на конце не происходит
2) понятия напряженность/ненапряженность относятся к монофтонгам (в английском традиции tensed/lax(ed)),
3) fade-fate различаются по глухости/звонкости (в английской традиции lenis/fortis) и как следствие по краткости/долготе дифтонга... Fade - дифтонг долгий, fate - дифтонг краткий..

[sergik]

fade-fate различаются по глухости/звонкости (в английской традиции lenis/fortis) и как следствие по краткости/долготе дифтонга... Fade - дифтонг долгий, fate - дифтонг краткий..

Ой ли?
In linguistics, fortis and lenis are terms generally used to refer to groups of consonants that are produced with greater and lesser energy, respectively, such as in energy applied, articulation, etc. "Fortis" and "lenis" were coined as less misleading terms to refer to consonantal contrasts in languages that do not employ actual vocal fold vibration in their "voiced" consonants but instead involved amounts of "articulatory strength"
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortis_and_lenis](wiki/en) Fortis_and_lenis[/url]

В том-то и дело, что русское ухо определяет звонкость по vocal fold vibration, а не по amounts of "articulatory strength". Иными словами, да, звонкие согласные в конце слов действительно оглушаются, так как произносятся без vocal fold vibration, но при этом носители утверждают, что спутать их с глухими нельзя из-за разницы в "articulatory strength".

[Itagat]

Глухие в любом случае произносятся с придыханием,за счет этого их и невозможно спутать с смягченными звонкими согласными.

[sergik]

Похоже, нашел материал, который может прояснить вопрос. Вот выдержка (выделено мной).

Peter Roach
Emeritus Professor of Phonetics

English Phonetics and Phonology

p.26 (37)

To give a complete description of a plosive consonant we must describe what happens at
each of the following four phases in its production:
   i) The first phase is when the articulator or articulators move to form the stricture
      for the plosive. We call this the closing phase.
   ii) The second phase is when the compressed air is stopped from escaping. We call
      this the compression phase.
   iii) The third phase is when the articulators used to form the stricture are moved so
      as to allow air to escape. This is the release phase.
   iv) The fourth phase is what happens immediately after (iii), so we will call it the
      post-release phase.
   
   4.4 English plosives
   English has six plosive consonants: p, t, k, b, d, g. The glottal plosive ? occurs
frequently but it is of less importance, since it is usually just an alternative pronunciation
of p, t, k in certain contexts. The plosives have different places of articulation. The plosives
p, b are bilabial since the lips are pressed together ...; t, d are alveolar since the
tongue blade is pressed against the alveolar ridge ... Normally the tongue does
not touch the front teeth as it does in the dental plosives found in many languages. The
plosives k, g are velar; the back of the tongue is pressed against the area where the hard
palate ends and the soft palate begins ...
The plosives p, t, k are always voiceless; b, d, g are sometimes fully voiced, sometimes
partly voiced and sometimes voiceless. We will consider what b, d, g should be called in
Section 4.5 below.
   All six plosives can occur at the beginning of a word (initial position), between other
sounds (medial position) and at the end of a word (final position). To begin with we will
look at plosives preceding vowels (which can be abbreviated as CV, where C stands for a
consonant and V stands for a vowel), between vowels (VCV) and following vowels (VC).
We will look at more complex environments in later chapters.
   i)   Initial position (CV): The closing phase for p, t, k and b, d, g takes place
      silently. During the compression phase there is no voicing in p, t, k; in b, d, g
      there is normally very little voicing - it begins only just before the release. If
      the speaker pronounces an initial b, d, g very slowly and carefully there may be
      voicing during the entire compression phase (the plosive is then fully voiced),
      while in rapid speech there may be no voicing at all.
      The release of p, t, k is followed by audible plosion - that is, a burst
      of noise. There is then, in the post-release phase, a period during which
      air escapes through the vocal folds, making a sound like h. This is called
      aspiration. Then the vocal folds come together and voicing begins. The release
      of b, d, g is followed by weak plosion, and this happens at about the same time
      as, or shortly after, the beginning of voicing. The most noticeable and impor¬
      tant difference, then, between initial p, t, k and b, d, g is the aspiration of the
      voiceless plosives p, t, k. The different phases of the plosive all happen very
      rapidly, but the ear distinguishes clearly between p, t, k and b, d, g. If English
      speakers hear a fully voiced initial plosive, they will hear it as one of b, d, g but
      will notice that it does not sound quite natural. If they hear a voiceless unaspi¬
      rated plosive they will also hear that as one of b, d, g, because it is aspiration,
      not voicing which distinguishes initial p, t, k from b, d, g. Only when they hear
      a voiceless aspirated plosive will they hear it as one of p, t, k; experiments have
      shown that we perceive aspiration when there is a delay between the sound of
      plosion and the beginning (or onset) of voicing.
      In initial position, b, d, g cannot be preceded by any consonant, but p, t, k
      may be preceded by s. When one of p, t, k is preceded by s it is unaspirated. From
      what was said above it should be clear that the unaspirated p, t, k of the initial com¬
      binations sp, st, sk have the sound quality that makes English speakers perceive a
      plosive as one of b, d, g; if a recording of a word beginning with one of sp, st, sk is
      heard with the s removed, an initial b, d or g is perceived by English speakers.
   ii) Medial position (VCV): The pronunciation of p, t, k and b, d, g in medial
      position depends to some extent on whether the syllables preceding and
      following the plosive are stressed. In general we can say that a medial plosive
      may have the characteristics either of final or of initial plosives.
   iii) Final position (VC): Final b, d, g normally have little voicing; if there is voic¬
      ing, it is at the beginning of the compression phase; p, t, k are always voiceless.
      The plosion following the release of p, t, k and b, d, g is very weak and often
      not audible. The difference between p, t, k and b, d, g is primarily the fact that
      vowels preceding p, t, k are much shorter. The shortening effect of p, t, k is
      most noticeable when the vowel is one of the long vowels or diphthongs. This
      effect is sometimes known as pre-fortis clipping.
   4.5   Fortis and lenis
   Are b, d, g voiced plosives? The description of them makes it clear that it is not very
accurate to call them "voiced"; in initial and final position they are scarcely voiced at all,
and any voicing they may have seems to have no perceptual importance. Some phoneticians
say that p, t, k are produced with more force than b, d, g, and that it would therefore be
better to give the two sets of plosives (and some other consonants) names that indicate
that fact; so the voiceless plosives p, t, k are sometimes called fortis (meaning 'strong') and
b, d, g are then called lenis (meaning 'weak'). It may well be true that p, t, k are produced
with more force, though nobody has really proved it - force of articulation is very dif¬
ficult to define and measure. On the other hand, the terms fortis and lenis are difficult to
remember. Despite this, we shall follow the practice of many books and use these terms.
...
The fortis/lenis distinction is a very complicated matter. It is necessary to consider
how one could measure "force of articulation"; many different laboratory techniques
have been tried to see if the articulators are moved more energetically for fortis conso¬
nants, but all have proved inconclusive. The only difference that seems reasonably reliable
is that fortis consonants have higher air pressure in the vocal tract, but Lisker (1970) has
argued convincingly that this is not conclusive evidence for a "force of articulation" dif¬
ference. It is possible to ask phonetically untrained speakers whether they feel that more
energy is used in pronouncing p, t, k than in b, d, g, but there are many difficulties in
doing this. A useful review of the "force of articulation" question is in Catford (1977:
199-208). I feel the best conclusion is that any term one uses to deal with this distinction
(whether fortis/lenis or voiceless/voiced) is to be looked on as a cover term - a term which
has no simple physical meaning but which may stand for a large and complex set of pho¬
netic characteristics.
...
6.2   The fricatives of English
...
With the exception of glottal, each place of articulation has a pair of phonemes, one fortis
and one lenis. This is similar to what was seen with the plosives. The fortis fricatives are
said to be articulated with greater force than the lenis, and their friction noise is louder. The
lenis fricatives have very little or no voicing in initial and final positions, but may be voiced
when they occur between voiced sounds. The fortis fricatives have the effect of shortening a
preceding vowel in the same way as fortis plosives do.
...
6.3   The affricates of English
It was explained in Section 6.1 that tʃ , dʒ are the only two affricate phonemes
in English. As with the plosives and most of the fricatives, we have a fortis/lenis pair,
and the voicing characteristics are the same as for these other consonants, tʃ is slightly
aspirated in the positions where p, t, k are aspirated, but not strongly enough for it to
be necessary for foreign learners to give much attention to it.